File No. 9110177
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT FREDDY BURGOS
Interview Date: October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
MR. RADENBERG: Today is October 31, 2001.
The time is now 0719 hours.
Q. I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of
the City of New York conducting an interview with --
A. Freddy Burgos, emergency medical technician
for the Department of Fire.
Q. Of EMS Battalion 14. This interview is being
conducted at EMS Battalion 14 and is regarding the
events of September 11, 2001. Freddy, just begin with
when you were assigned to the job?
A. We got assigned to the job. We were
responding from the Bronx, down the FDR Highway. As we
approached, we see the two burning buildings.
Apparently both aircrafts had already crashed into the
building.
As we got downtown, we went through traffic
to try and find the staging. We finally get to arrive
at our staging area and we pull up. To my right I see
one of the towers, I believe it's the first one that
came down. In front of me on the other side of the
street, there is numerous ambulances there.
So I decided I didn't want to put myself
right in the middle of it, so I backed my ambulance up
to the opposite corner. Just then a rumble was heard, and then after it goes black and pieces of metal and so
forth and so forth started falling on the ambulance.
It goes completely black.
Thereafter, once it cleared up, I told my
partner once it clears up we will get out, get the
equipment and we will get out of the vehicle, because
we were still in the vehicle. We were actually a
little too close. That's where we wanted to go. When
the first building came down, after the dust lifted
from that one, in front of me, the other ambulances,
most of them not Fire Department, private or some other
ambulances, burning. I witnessed one vehicle crushed.
I witnessed a limb inside the vehicle. There was
obviously a person must have been dead inside it. The
driver of the vehicle I believe it was.
What else do I say. Me and my partner, Karen
Lamanna, get out of the vehicle. We put our equipment
on the stretcher. We come down walking, or actually
running back to any open buildings, where we could go
inside with our equipment. People were in there and
set up a little triage area. Little bit of that
stuff. Not much thereafter, prior to the second
building coming down.
Fire Department personnel and PD personnel running into the building saying it's safe. Other
people in there, including ourselves, were evacuated
from that building and moved further away from the
incident. As everybody was moving away, we are getting
everybody. You could see obviously the body parts that
were right next to us.
My partner goes one way. I go back to the
ambulance to pick up some more O2 tanks and just prior
to getting to the bus, I hear the rumble and I drop
everything and I run out. As I'm running, I take a
look back, see the cloud of dust coming at me and I go
into one of the buildings with a little walkway type of
deal and ducked in there and see everything come by, it
goes completely black. I waited a little bit before I
came out. Come out and I'm walking to find Fire
Department personnel.
I started walking towards the water. I guess
I figured if anything else came down, I'd go in the
water. I walked alongside the water, until I wound up
at one of the -- West Street or Chambers, I'm not
exactly sure where it was. I walked over. I spoke to
a Captain. I forget which Captain it was. I think it
was Captain Rivera. He was looking at me and I'm all
dusty and I'm white and so forth, and he says well, where is your partner, I said I think she is dead.
He takes me to the MERV, puts me in there and
from then on I stood there. Not too long before I
walked up to -- caught a ride actually, up to the
Chelsea Piers where everything was being stationed at.
Before you knew it, that was the whole day. From there
we got shipped back here. That was about it.
Q. Okay. When you first got there, were you on
the West Side Highway, West Street?
A. I was right along the West Side Highway,
parallel.
Q. Somewhere around Liberty?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. When the building came, the first
building came down, after you got your stuff out of the
bus.
A. My stuff was still in the bus. When the
first building came down, we were in the bus when the
first building came down.
Q. After that, when you got out of the bus,
okay, did you come across West Side Highway, did you
head west, do you remember?
A. I think I went down -- these buildings along
this side here. We got out of the bus and we came down, down south into one of the buildings in there.
That's where we set up our staging area. That lasted
about 15 minutes, before somebody else came in and said
it's not safe. We came back out and I went to my bus
real quick to get more O2 tanks and everybody was going
south. That's the last I saw of my partner, by the
way.
Q. She was heading south?
A. If I remember correctly, she was heading
south on the West Side Highway.
Q. Okay.
A. I got caught up, because I went back to get
more O2 tanks.
Q. Do you remember any -- when you first got
there, any other EMS personnel that you recognized down
there, officers?
A. Not officers, I saw a couple of people that
were there. I remember I saw Patterson, I forget his
first name.
Q. Patterson?
A. One of the workers that was there got hit by
something coming down and he hurt his arm. That I
remember. Somewhere along the way, there was another
EMT, I don't remember who he was. We helped him, he helped us with all our shit. I don't know where his
bus was. I don't think he did either. That was -- the
point we came down, when I came out of that building,
after the second tower came down, I was alone here.
By this time, when building number two came
down, I was alone. I didn't know where anybody was. I
commenced going before the second building came down
and jumping into one of these buildings. I remember
falling on my face a couple of times. I kept tripping
over body parts. Like they were covered by dust, so I
couldn't see where I was going.
After that I came out and I started walking
towards the water. I kept looking at the water because
I kept saying to myself, if something else comes down,
I'm going to jump in the water.
Q. You could see the Hudson from where you were
on the west side?
A. I knew it was there. It was partially
blocked, but I knew it was there. My wife works at
World Financial Center. So I knew the water was
there. From then on I met up with -- as we were
walking along the water, I met -- started to see
people, bump into people. A couple I knew, a couple of
people. Joey Conzo, that was it. Until I finally got to the (inaudible) from.
Q. Once you reached the Hudson, you went north
towards Chambers?
A. Started walking up towards Chambers where
--- somebody said something about Chambers as far as
West Street, or whatever that street was, as far as the
first safety area. So that's basically where I kept
heading, along the water. Basically kept heading that
up that way; rubble, mess, shit like that, body parts
everywhere.
Q. Yes, yes.
A. (inaudible).
Q. Do you remember offhand what vehicle you were
in, the vehicle number that day?
A. I think it was 448, but I can't be sure.
Q. What was your partner's name?
A. Karen Lamanna. She was ALS. I was working
overtime that day. I wasn't even supposed to be
working. I was off that day. I came in for overtime
and that was my first job.
Q. Okay.
A. (inaudible).
Q. Okay. Any thoughts or comments?
A. We were too close, we were too fucking close. It wasn't just EMS. It was the entire system.
Too close. That's about my only opinion that, too damn
close.
MR. RADENBERG: Okay, the time is now 0731.
The interview is concluded. The interview date
was October 31, 2001, not as previously stated
August 31, 2001.
File No. 9110432
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER JOHN BUTLER
Interview Date: January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA: Today is
January 8, 2002. The time is 12:12. This is
Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the Safety
Division of the New York City Fire
Department. I'm conducting an interview with
Firefighter John Butler, Firefighter 1st,
assigned to Engine 6 of the New York City
Fire Department. We are at the engine office
of Engine 6. This is regarding the events of
September 11, 2001.
- Paul Beyer, 37
- Thomas Holohan, 36
- William R. Johnston, 31
A. On the morning of September 11, Engine 6
was taking up from Box 201 at approximately 8:40 and
as I turned around by the Brooklyn Bridge I observed
a blackened area in Tower number 1. The engine
officer of 6 Engine, Lieutenant Thomas O'Hagan,
transmitted a second alarm. We came back to
quarters and I picked up two additional firemen who
were waiting outside the quarters and we arrived at
number 1 World Trade Center at approximately 8:47.
I immediately decided or I was gonna go into
high pressure. I kept -- one of the firemen I
picked up, who was an engine chauffeur, with me to
assist in the stretch of the line across West Street
because of the traffic, we hooked up into the standpipe and I put Engine 6 into high pressure and
I notified Battalion 1 that we were in high
pressure.
Members of Engine 6, at this time I don't know
where they entered the building. I heard one
communication regarding a Mayday situation which was
transmitted by Marine 6, that they thought they had
observed a major collapse of Tower number 2. While
we were operating at this spot, we were there for
approximately one hour before the second plane hit
Tower number 2 and up until that time myself and the
other member of Engine 6 were unaware that a plane
had already hit Tower number 1. We were under the
impression that there was some kind of a fire up
there, an explosion. We thought it was like an air
conditioning room within the building. At no time
did I hear any communications about a plane hitting.
When a second plane struck Tower number 2, I
observed a large fire ball traveling from south to
north. At that time I took the other fireman,
Fireman Robert Emans, with me and we proceeded to
run up West Street. We ran approximately one block
and then we stopped to try to figure out what
exactly had happened and some short time later Tower number 1, with the radio antenna on it, started to
pancake. At that time we proceeded to run some more
up West Street. A cloud that ensued from the
building collapse, when it hit the ground picked up
great momentum and it was right behind us all the
way up West Street. We ran approximately five
blocks until the cloud subsided.
We gathered our thoughts and at that time we
proceeded over to 7 Engine on Duane Street to see if
we could find out exactly what happened. Nobody had
any additional information. We then proceeded from
7 Engine back to our own quarters on Beekman Street.
At that time, I was in communications with
Deputy Chief Hill of the first division and he
instructed me to be the liaison to Beekman Hospital
to coordinate information about how many members
were being treated, extent of the injury, company
identification. I did that for approximately four
hours until I was relieved by Chief Oehm of the
first battalion.
At that point, we rejoined the members of
Engine 6 up at the site on Broadway and Fulton
Street. The only thing I can say about this whole
incident, it was a complete surprise. Like I said earlier, at no time did we know that a plane had hit
Tower number 1. We must -- I must have observed the
tower approximately two minutes after the first
plane had hit and at no time did we know that a
plane had hit. I heard no communications to
evacuate the building. I was in communications with
members of Engine 6. They were on the 27th floor,
proceeding upward. I heard communications from a
squad company that informed them that it was an
hour's climb to 30.
The only other thing I have to say is probably
in the future modification should be made about
truck companies responding into incidents like this.
When they can observe from a distance the height of
the building and the location of the fire, they know
they are not going to use their ladders so they
should just drop the members off in front of the
building and reposition their rigs at a safe
distance away from the building to avoid being hit
with debris or falling bodies or as in this case, a
total collapse of the building.
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA: Thank you,
John. It's 12:50 and this concludes the
interview
File No. 9110381
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
ASSISTANT CHIEF MICHAEL BUTLER
Interview Date: December 21, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
CHIEF CANTY: Today is December 21st,
2001. The time is 1113 hours. This is
Michael Canty, Battalion Chief, New York
City Fire Department. I am conducting an
interview with Assistant Chief Michael
Butler, Bureau of Fire Prevention, regarding
the events of September 11th, 2001.
Q. Please state your name.
A. Michael J. Butler.
Q. And you're assignment?
A. I'm the Chief of Fire Prevention.
Q. Where did you respond to the World
Trade Center?
A. I responded from home. I was on
vacation.
Q. How did you become aware of the
incident at the World Trade Center?
A. Via the television.
Q. En route to the World Trade Center,
what did you see?
A. I saw the first tower come down when I
was on the expressway prior to entering the
Midtown Tunnel.
Q. That's the Long Island Expressway?
A. Long Island Expressway.
Q. Where did you park your car when you
arrived at the World Trade Center?
A. I parked my car on Warren Street and
West, on Warren Street facing east.
Q. On arrival did any civilian report
anything to you?
A. No. A lot of people running.
Q. To whom did you first report to and
where?
A. For lack of a better word, I reported
to Chief Cruthers someplace on West Street
shortly after the second tower came down.
Q. Were you given any specific assignment?
A. Chief Cruthers ordered me to assemble a
staging area -- actually at that time it was
called the operations post -- at Chambers and
West Street.
Q. You never entered any building prior to
the collapses; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Did you contact anyone in the buildings
prior to the collapse of the buildings?
A. Negative. I did not.
Q. You previously stated that you were on
the Long Island Expressway when the first tower
collapsed. What was your location at the time of
the second tower collapse?
A. I was on West Street approximately two
blocks north, probably at the interaction of
Murray and West.
Q. Were you in your vehicle?
A. No. I was walking.
Q. Where did you go?
A. There was a chief's car, a GMC
battalion chief's car in that interaction. As
the enveloping dust cloud reached me or prior to
reaching me, I ran behind that chief's car with a
small group young firefighters. It was a truck
company, and it was a single digit. But I don't
know who they were.
Q. Did you remove any injured civilians or
firefighters prior to or following any of these
collapses?
A. From the site? No. I probably
assisted people as they were coming in to the
operations post that I initially started to
establish at West and Chambers.
Q. Was that more in a supervisory
capacity?
A. Yes.
Q. Were these people seriously injured or
were they walking?
A. No, this was mostly dazed, disoriented
firefighters and civilians.
Q. Consider your handy talking
communications for a moment. When you arrived --
what information do you have concerning handy
talking communications at the World Trade Center?
A. I have no information on communications
of handy talky within the building. When I took
my position on West and Chambers, trying to make
contact from West and Chambers via my handy talky
with anyone in and around the Trade Center did
not happen. And I know my handy talky was
charged.
Q. Did you hear any radio traffic on the
handy talky at that time?
A. No, there was no radio traffic, and
there was no radio traffic on the air, the
department radio, either. It was dead silent.
Q. This was following the second collapse?
A. This was following the second collapse.
Q. Which channels did you operate on, if
you remember?
A. The universal channel, handy talky 1.
Q. Were you notified to switch to any
other channels?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Given the current known status of any
missing or deceased members, did you have any
visual or verbal contact with any of these
members on September 11th?
A. No, none whatsoever.
Q. Is there anything else that you would
like to add to this interview as far as
information concerning the events of September
11th?
A. No.
CHIEF CANTY: Thank you very much for
your time, Chief.
It is now 11:30 on December 21st, 2001.
This concludes the interview. It was an
interview with Assistant Chief Michael
Butler, Bureau of Fire Prevention, conducted
by Battalion Chief Michael Canty, Bureau of Operations.
File No. 9110500
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL BYRNE
Interview Date: January 21, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
CHIEF KENAHAN: Today's date is January
21st, 2002. The time is 1:48 p.m. This is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety
Battalion of the Fire Department of the City
of New York. I'm conducting an interview
with Firefighter Mike Byrne from --
What company?
FIREFIGHTER BYRNE: Engine 21.
CHIEF KENAHAN: -- Engine 21 in the
quarters of --
FIREFIGHTER BYRNE: Engine 16.
CHIEF KENAHAN: -- Engine 16.
Q. Mike, just tell us the events as you
recall them from September 11th.
A. We got the ticket after the second
plane hit. We went down and parked on Church and
Vesey off from the north tower under that
pedestrian walkway. We went into the tower, we
were in the lobby a couple minutes. There was
only one chief there. We really had no direction
what to do.
Capt. William Francis Burke, Jr., 46
Captain Burke decided we would either
go up on our own or wait for someone. We went
up, started our way up. We went to the bank of elevators. We pulled a lady out of the bank, one
of the banks. We used a rabbit tool. Most of
the banks were blown off. The doors were charred
and dismembered, some of them.
Like I said, we were in the lobby for a
while. There were jumpers, a lot of jumpers. A
lot of companies coming in and out.
We decided to take an elevator up. 13
Truck took us up. I'm assuming it was a low
riser. It was one of the only elevators that
were clear, and it looked like it was working.
13 took us up to -- first they took a couple guys
from my company up. Then I went up with another
guy, came back down and got us, went up to the
24th floor. The whole company was there.
We walked up three more flights to the
27th floor. I don't know the time we were up
there for, but however long we were up there,
that's when the other building came down. We
didn't know it at the time. The whole building
shook. We hit the floor. Guys were saying, "Pop
the door. Pop the door. Pop the door." It
stopped. No smoke, no nothing. We thought
something was coming down the hallway, maybe.
Again, I don't know the time frame from
that time that elapsed. We got a report maybe
69th floor, 64th floor, partial collapse. After
that -- there was one chief, I believe, up there.
I'm not sure. He told us to start our way down,
make your way down, everybody out.
Since I didn't hear that on the radio.
I just heard it from -- start your way down. We
were there with Captain Billy Burke, who we lost.
We're like, "Let's go, Cap. We're all out." He
said, "Start your way down. Make your way down.
We'll all meet at the rig." Again, we're like
let's go. He said, "Start your way down. We'll
all meet at the rig."
I had a radio. We started our way down
I believe it was the B staircase. I'm not sure.
It could have been A. I talked to him three
times on the way down, once in the stairwell,
once on the 19th floor as we were switching over
from the B to the A or the A to the B. Again,
I'm not sure. I spoke to him once in the lobby.
It was the same thing all the time,
meet at the rig, meet at the rig.
Q. Did he say he was on his way down?
A. I didn't even get that, no. We still
had no idea the other building came down.
On the way down, like you said, people
we saw, we saw guys from 8 Engine. These guys
from my battalion that I knew. I saw them on the
8th floor. I saw guys, like you said, you want
to know guys names that were coming in. I saw
guys coming in there.
Robert Parro, 35
Q. That were lost?
A. I saw a guy from this house,
Lieutenant -- I forget his name. It's on the
wall.
Yeah, we got out into the street. It
was clear. I didn't even know what happened
until I was in the street about a minute. We
were walking north.
Q. You were on West Street?
A. We went north on West over the
overpass. There were thee of us now walked out.
We walked out with 65 Engine we were just looking
around. I was basically dazed, what the hell
happened, what the hell happened, what the hell
happened. Did the building come down? As you're
saying that, the other one started coming down.
I just ran up West Street, still going
north. Other guys from my company ran across the
street. You ran and it caught up to you, hit the
floor and just waited and covered with shit.
That's about it.
Q. You can't remember anybody else whose
name that you saw in the building that's missing;
right?
A. Rob Parro. They found his body. He
was with Freddie Ill. Three guys in the lobby,
Denis Germain, Dennis Mulligan and George
Dipasquale, all from 2 Truck. I saw them in the
lobby.
- George DiPasquale, 33
- Denis P. Germain, 33
- Dennis Michael Mulligan, 32
One of our guys, as we were walking
down the stairs, went back to get the captain
again, and he started helping a guy from 13
Truck, the only guy from 13 Truck that made it
out. They carried a civilian down.
- Capt. Walter G. Hynes, 46
- Thomas Hetzel, 33
- Dennis McHugh, 34
- Thomas E. Sabella, 44
- Gregory Stajk, 46
Those guys from 13 took us up. I
remember seeing 44 Engine in the lobby. I guess
they came together. It could have been 22. I
saw -- I forget his name, Lieutenant --
Q. Have they found his body?
A. No, I'm trying to think of it. I'm sorry.
Q. That's okay.
A. He's on the wall there too. Kenny
Phelan. That's the lieutenant. I saw him in the
lobby. He was covering for a day. He just got
made.[Kenny Phelan was caught in the collapse with 3 members of Engine 217,may they all rest in peace DC]
- Lt. Kenneth Phelan, 41
- Steven Coakley, 36
- Philip T. Hayes, 67
- Neil Joseph Leavy, 34
Q. Okay. If that's it, thank you, Mike.
CHIEF KENAHAN: The time now is 1:54,
and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110266
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER ROBERT BYRNE
Interview Date: December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
CHIEF KEMLY: Today's date is December
7th, 2001. The time is 1645 hours. This is
Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the New York
City Fire Department. I'm conducting an
interview with the following individual:
Firefighter 6th grade Robert Byrne, assigned
to Engine Company 24 of the Fire Department
of the City of New York.
The interview is taking place at the
quarters of Engine 24, in the company
office, regarding the events of September
11th, 2001.
Q. Fireman Byrne, would you please tell me
what happened on September 11th.
A. September 11th I arrived for work early
to do my probationary firefighter duties so I was
square with everything. When we got the call to
go, I was able to -- I had to beg the nozzle man
to let me take up on him, which I did. The call
came in around 8:46, so we responded immediately.
So I had the knob.
En route to the World Trade Center, it
was myself as the nozzle man, Marcel Claes was
the backup, Dan Sterling was the doorman, and Rich Billy had control, Lieutenant Hanson was my
officer and John Ottrando was our chauffeur.
While going to the Trade Center, I'm
really doing my size-up and saying, oh, my God,
there's like ten floors missing. Everything is
blowing out fire. I remember looking how high it
is and saying, oh, my God, how are we going to
get up there with all of our equipment.
We parked on, I'm pretty sure it was
the West Side Highway by Vesey. I'm almost sure
it was over in that area. I remember John parked
the rig. We headed to the north tower at that
time.
When we were going there, I remember
seeing debris and whatnot falling. When we got
to the staging area inside the lobby, I remember
seeing other companies. I remember vividly
seeing it looked like the core elevators of the
building were blown apart as if a giant had
punched through tinfoil.
I remember seeing some bodies. I
remember looking out into the courtyard and
seeing some mutilated bodies. Debris was
everywhere. I remember we were just waiting for our assignment.
From there we headed up, I believe it
was behind Ladder 20, and we headed up to the
staircase A. We got as far as, I'd say, the 13th
floor initially. We had to take our first blow
because we were carrying a lot of equipment.
- Capt. John R. Fischer, 46
- John Patrick Burnside, 36
- James Michael Gray, 34
- Sean S. Hanley, 35
- David Laforge, 50
- Robert Thomas Linnane, 33
- Robert D. McMahon[B.R], 35
There were civilians jamming the
staircase. There was water flowing down the
staircase; I remember that. People saying,
"Thank you, guys." I remember another unit
behind us. I don't remember what company they
were with. One of the senior guys was saying
basically, "You're almost there, folks. You're
almost there." Then I started joking around with
the people. I said, "Yeah, all this for 32
grand." People thought it was funny. That was
my way of trying to make them feel better, tell
them a joke.
On the 13th floor we took a break. I
remember hearing radio calls then, by other
units, some maydays, members down with chest
pains. I don't know what floors they were on.
I kept going up. I remember seeing
people coming down in the stairs. We had to make way for a couple of people that had their skin
hanging off their bodies, basically. They were
pretty burnt up.
I don't remember what floor it was, but
we were with a woman who had an asthma attack and
a man was helping her down. We were trying to
help her. We didn't have too much CFR stuff with
us, but some EMT I guess it was -- popped out of
nowhere. He had an oxygen tank with no proper
rebreather mask, but he was able to give her a
little air.
To make a long story short, she was
able to get out because she decided not to stay
and wait for EMS to help her out. She just got
out. She got out of the building.
It was around the 29th floor, I think
it was, that we decided to take some of our gear
off in order to make it up to the 80th floor.
Then we moved up to I think it was the 29th
floor. I don't remember what other units were up
there. Like I was saying, we were going to take
some gear off, leave a few of the hose lengths.
We carried a lot of gear up, and it was almost
impossible to make it up that high anyway.
That's where we left Rich Billy to be
communications relay, basically, because
communications were pretty poor in the staircase.
Personally I didn't hear a lot of radio
transmissions.
I remember going to I believe it was
the 35th floor we got to, and that's where we ran
into 5 Truck, our guys. They saw us. We came
into the hallway, and we were pooped. They came
over and offered us water. We took a blow there
for a little bit.
I remember somebody had gotten into a
water dispenser, and we took Poland Spring
bottles. I think it was Andy Brunn that got into
it. We were giving them out to civilians on
their way down.
- Lt. Vincent Francis Giammona, 40
- Lt. Michael Warchola, 51
- Louis Arena, 32
- Andrew Brunn, 28
- Thomas Hannafin, 36
- Paul Hanlon Keating, 38
- John A. Santore, 49
- Gregory Thomas Saucedo, 31
I remember later on we went up to -- I
don't know if it was still on the 35th floor and
that's when we all dove into the staircase
because basically the whole tower shook and we
heard the noise of something going on. We didn't
know what it was.
What it was was the south tower
collapsing. We didn't know. Finally we got some sort of transmission on the radio saying there
was a collapse on the 60th floor. Meanwhile the
south tower happened to come down.
We were still on a rest period. We
started going back. We were supposed to meet up
with another unit; I don't remember who it was.
We made it as far as, I believe it was the 37th
floor, and I believe it was a chief from the 11th
Battalion that popped up on the staircase. His
exact words were "Drop everything and get out."
We looked to Lieutenant Hanson, and he said,
"Drop everything and get out." That's when we
basically evacuated.
Chief John M. Paolillo, 51
I remember going up the stairs took us
over the hour. Getting down the stairs took
maybe ten minutes, not even. By that time the
staircase was empty. The same staircase we took
up was empty on the way down
We got as far as I believe the 10th
floor, 10th or 15th -- I'm not a hundred percent
sure -- and we knew something was bad at that
time anyway.
There was a radio transmission for --
they needed help. Lieutenant Hanson told me to get out because my -- when the chief told me to
drop everything, because I'm a proby, I followed
orders to the T, I guess, and I dropped
everything, except for my bunker gear, of course.
But I dropped my Scott tank and everything. When
I got down to that floor, he said, "All right,
Byrne, you don't have your face piece. Just get
out of the building."
Basically, I got as far as the third
floor, where I ran into -- it looked like there
was a collapse down there. It was pretty bad.
It was all smoky and dusty. I thought it was
smoke, and I got a little nervous. I was at the
point where I was going to go up and get another
Scott tank, but I realized it wasn't smoke.
That's when I saw it was a collapse.
It looked like a collapse; either that or the
collapse and just closed up the staircase, I
think it was the second floor, third or second
floor, whatever it was. That's where I ran into
a Port Authority cop, and he directed me out.
It was a good thing I had my flashlight
on still, because it was pitch-black. I followed
a pitch-black hallway, and that's where I ran into a group of civilians. When we got to the
point, I think it was the lobby, and that's where
we had -- we had a little overhead protection
there, and then we had to run across to the next
overhead protection it was about a 75 foot run.
There were jumpers and debris that was falling.
We had to pretty much take our chance when we
made the run.
Before that I remember running into
another guy in my probationary class, Jimmy
Brown. He was with 10-10. He was saying he
doesn't know where everybody is. To make a long
story short with Jimmy Brown, he ended up living
but he got buried up to his shoulders. They had
to dig him out before he suffocated.
I remember making the mad dash, praying
I wasn't going to get hit. I took a peek up. I
saw it looked clear to me, and I ran. I was
under another bit of overhead protection, but it
wasn't really that good a protection because the
aluminum was just coming down from that building.
It was just going through that thick plate glass
like a hot knife through butter. There were
bodies littering the courtyard. Everything was on fire.
So I was by myself with 20 civilians, I
guess. I was the only fireman. The whole line
stopped because we had to stay in a single column
to keep the overhead protection. I didn't
understand why the column stopped. I was
worried. I was like, why is this thing stopping?
So I went around to the front, and
that's when I found this big lady and she
couldn't walk. Basically I was like, "Lady,
you've got to get up. You're going to kill
everybody." She said, "No, just leave me here."
So we couldn't do that of course. I tried to
help carry her, but I was just so exhausted. She
wouldn't give any effort whatsoever to get up. I
told her I have to go get a straight board.
Right around the corner of the
building, maybe 20 feet, 30 feet, I found a
couple of ESU cops. With them two and myself, we
were able to get her as far as Church and Vesey
on the courtyard still. We're not in the street
level; we're still right next to the building.
I think there was another cop that came
over with a straight board. We strapped her in, we took her down the stairs, and that's when the
building came down. We were about 150 feet away
when the building came down.
I remember when the building came down
I couldn't believe it, because I didn't even know
the other one came down yet, because we were
never told. We were told it was a collapse above
the 60th floor.
What's that, Chief? I'm sorry.
All of a sudden the lady was able to
get up and walk fine. That was good. At least
she lived. Because I didn't have a mask, I
inhaled quite a bit of that stuff. It went in my
eyes, everything.
I remember walking into, I think it was
towards Vesey, and I saw somebody in the middle
of the street and said, "Who are you? "I don't
know if I said, "Who are you?" I just remember
looking. I kept on walking towards the only
person I saw. It turned out to be Lieutenant
Hanson. He barely got out too.
Together him and I were able to walk a
block or half a block through all that debris.
The debris was burning. We got help from a group of maintenance guys in a building. They were
able to wash our faces for us with a five gallon
jug. From there we got over to 7 and 1 somehow.
That's about it.
Q. Okay. Thank you. I have some
questions just to clarify stuff.
A. Sure.
Q. That was a good job there.
The first question, you said there were
other companies that you saw on the way, but you
don't remember their numbers? When you got to
Vesey and West, you started walking. These other
companies, you didn't take any notice?
A. When I was going in or out?
Q. Going in, walking towards the north
tower. You reported to the lobby command post,
probably, but do you know who the chief was at
the lobby command post?
A. Yeah, I remember seeing Chief Hayden.
Q. All right, Chief Hayden.
A. Because I remember there was a
firefighter from this house. I think it was 5
Truck. I remember seeing him around here before
that, and he was setting up the table, the command table they use. I remember him knocking
it down. That's what drew my attention to see
Chief Hayden.
Q. All right. So that was the aide
probably of the division.
A. Right.
Q. So that was Division 1 was there
already.
But you didn't see any other companies
like in the lobby, the numbers, any numbers?
A. I remember seeing 5 Truck too.
Q. You don't know where he directed him
to?
A. No.
Q. You went up the stairs with Ladder 20?
A. Yes. They were leading us.
Q. No other companies came down or up
while you were working that staircase?
A. We were passing companies.
Q. But you didn't take notice of their
numbers?
A. I didn't take notice. It was my first
job, basically.
Q. Okay. You said you didn't hear much on the
radio. Did you have a radio?
A. I did not, but I was close enough to
listen.
Q. That's fine.
The 11th Battalion, the chief you saw,
you said you believe it was the 11th?
A. Right.
Q. Did you see anybody with him? Was his
aide with him?
A. No, he was by himself.
Q. He was by himself. All right.
And you met 5 Truck on, what did you
say, the 35th?
A. The 35th floor, I believe it was.
Q. When you were coming down, did you see
any other Fire Department units or any apparatus
when you came out?
A. When I came out there was an engine. I
forgot the number.
Q. It was probably crushed; right?
A. No.
Q. It was in good shape?
A. It was in good shape after the building collapsed.
Q. You came out of the lobby on the Church
Street side. Is that what you said? I believe
you said that.
A. Yeah, either that or I came out another
way. I had to go around the building.
Q. That's when you saw the engine, when
you first came out?
A. After the building came down I saw the
engine, because I went to look for a Scott tank.
Q. When you saw this fellow Jim Brown, was
he in the lobby? Outside?
A. I'm pretty sure he was in the lobby. I
thought he was just right outside the lobby.
Just before the mad dash.
There was something else I missed, I
wanted to tell.
Q. Okay. If you can remember something
else, go ahead. There's no rush.
A. I just forgot it.
Q. There's no rush.
A. Sorry. Thinking about this bugs you
out.
Q. No, we're just trying to find out if you saw the units --
A. Oh, okay, I remember now. I remember
exactly. I remember 5 Truck telling us that they
got up staircase B because it was empty of
civilians, because we were telling them how we
were packed with civilians. They told us to take
B with them, and we ended up just staying in A.
That is what I remembered.
Q. Okay. If there's nothing else, that
concludes the interview. Thank you very much.
A. Thank you, Chief.
Q. Okay.
To be continued...
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