File No. 9110143
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
LIEUTENANT MICHAEL CAHILL
Interview Date: October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
MR. ECCLESTON: Today is October 17, 2001.
The time is 1236 hours. My name is Christopher
Eccleston. I work for New York City Fire
Department. I'm conducting an interview with the
following individual.
Q. Please state your name, rank and assigned
command in the New York City Fire Department as of
September 11, 2001.
A. My name is Michael Cahill. I'm a Lieutenant,
I'm assigned to EMS Division 6.
Q. Were you assigned to the World Trade disaster
on September 11, 2001?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In your own words, can you please tell me the
details of the day.
A. Absolutely. Absolutely. We did what we
could to see to it that we were not stuck in the office
buried under paper that day. You hang around 14 years,
11 months and 29 days, waiting for the big one and I
thought Clifford Avenue was a big one. Then we went to
Happy Lands. I thought that was the big one. We made
a point to kidnap who we had to kidnap and get
everybody in the Division office down to his job.
One of the guys in the office made a good point. He said if he or I were driving that day, we
would be dead. But as the person who was actually
operating the vehicle didn't know Manhattan. He's a
vacation relief ALS coordinator. Good guy. First time
I think he ever chauffeured the Chief around. He was
driving very very carefully, as he should. He was
using the directional signal and all that kind of
stuff, which is funny with lights and sirens. You
don't see that.
As a result, we didn't get there as fast as
we initially would have liked to. Just around the time
we pulled up, stopped the vehicle, actually we were
getting out of the vehicle and the first thing I became
conscious off of when we were stepping out of the
vehicle, was a police officer was flying in our
direction, yelling and screaming for everybody to back
up and leave. There were a few thousand civilians,
evacuating, going past us. About 30 feet maybe from
the command car, a piece of what looked like the
facade, looking at it now, not that I ever paid too
much attention to those buildings before. It had to be
two stories or thee stories hit the street about 30
feet away from Chief Stone. Like that.
The cop -- it missed that cop by -- I don't know how many feet. He was probably standing right
underneath it, which explains him yelling. We jumped
back in the vehicle, figured it was a good idea to
since we were mobile, move us far away as we could. We
had no idea what was going on. We went there for a
plane into a building, a fire. That's what we went
there for. Now we show up and this big thing hits.
We got about 10 feet when all the people who
were fleeing, there were still you know, some civilians
and some rescue workers and some cops, were running in
front of the vehicles. We couldn't really take the
vehicle any further and we decided very quickly we will
abandon it. We pulled over as close as we could,
jumped out of the vehicle and were trying to organize
getting helmets out of the trunk and those kind of
things.
This cloud that had to be three stories high
rolled right up on us. Like it was nothing. Stevie
was very very anxious to get us away from that thing.
As he was walking in this direction, it was
unbelievable. It was black sort of, mostly gray, you
couldn't see through it, and it was moving faster than
any of us could run. No matter what we did.
We only got maybe half a block before it covered all of us. There were a few ambulances who
were already parked there, with some very confused and
frightened people sitting inside. All we basically did
was duck behind one. There was really nowhere to go.
I mean, we were completely disoriented, really. When
you first get there, you know, you take a breath and
look for somebody else, somebody else from EMS and the
assignment, we knew where it was going. There were
about 30 Chiefs assigned. What anyone's assignment was
going to be we had no idea.
So we were still in that scene survey type
mode and all of a sudden these bricks started falling
around you. I don't even know how to describe it.
Everything got black, nobody could breathe. After a
while everything got gray again and then you could sort
of breathe. We kind of mustered up our forces.
At that point, I found Arnedegnato, the
L.O.D.I. Limited person in our office. Sounds foolish,
but we didn't know of any other command post that was
still extant, that was sitting around there, and we
knew, we hadn't seen any other supervisors or Chiefs at
that point. We could barely see anything at all, very
strange. Really eerie. Like being underwater at
night. You know, you sort of -- total sensory deprivation. You are not sure exactly where you should
go. There is so much noise. There is things you feel
on your feet, just, you know, pieces whatever, hitting
the street.
We weren't sure what to do next. What I was
going to try to do is just do a fast head count of the
people that came to me. I was going to try to find out
where my two medics were and my APs were and my Chief.
Some of the guys, some of the people who were in the
ambulances started coming out of the ambulances, things
started to settle.
The Chief popped up. I was telling everyone
to stay exactly where they were. People were getting
out of the ambulances. They were wandering, or trying
to. I said stay right by your ambulance right now till
we get a head count, find out how many people are
here. You couldn't really see halfway down the block.
It's sort of hard to describe. A handful of ambulances
with us, we thought there was a MERV a little further
down the block but we really couldn't see.
Chief showed up, and we kind of --
Q. Which Chief?
A. My Chief. My Chief showed up. She showed
up. We kind of sort of came up with a very fast plan. At the time, we had no -- this is going to sound
absolutely bullshit, but we had no idea that we were
about a block away from the building when it dropped.
We really didn't know what that was. It sounds stupid,
but it didn't enter my mind or I think anybody else's
mind at that moment that there was any idea that that
building was going to fall.
When that big piece or whatever it was hit
the street, I thought it was a part of the building.
That's what I thought. We knew that planes did
substantial damage and you could see that as you were
driving down the highway to get there. You could see
it on TV before we even left the Division. It didn't
occur to me that that was the entire building. And
that's what all that dust was from. It didn't even
cross my mind. It didn't occur to me that the second
building would fall. I thought we were perfectly safe
where we were.
So we set up ALS on one side of the street,
BLS on the other side of the street, gave Arnedegnato a
clipboard and told her run up and down, start tracking
people. We need to know what units were there, their
shield numbers, who was doing what. Then we were going
to set up a staging, triage, whatever else we had. A few people wandered up. A few EMS (inaudible). One
very emotionally upset young lady, an EMS person I had
never seen her before. Short little blond girl,
probably from Manhattan. She definitely wasn't from
the Bronx. I'd know her.
She was upset about her son who was in Queens
in school. The whole situation. She was completely --
she was totally not functioning. I put her in the back
of one of the ambulances and gave her a BLS unit to sit
with her for a little while. I'd check on her
occasionally.
Found the MERV, once things settled up a
little bit, and saw there was a little further up the
block, there was already activity taking place, people
already triaging, people who were already working on
transporting people. Basically got back up. We tried
to find masks. There weren't enough masks to go around
for everybody. Basically the only masks we had at the
time was whatever was in the back of the ambulances
that were there and there was about ten of them there.
It wasn't enough to go around.
Treated a couple of cops. Treated a couple
of firemen. Mostly walking out of the dust. We had to
walk into the dust and pull somebody out. Things kind of happened quickly. We were just sending them towards
people, towards vehicles. Getting things organized.
At one point or another, I don't know the address of
the building. There was an interior triage being set
up. That was sort of underway. There was a very well
meaning EMT waiting over there who was completely
confused by the triage procedures, even though there
was a relatively large amount of patients in one place
at one time, including a lot of EMS people, who weren't
quite sure what they were up to at the moment.
They were trying to find a bathroom in the
building so they could wash up. Not being terribly
verbal, I mean I was finding -- I came across Captain
Rivera, who is a senior guy. He used to work in my
Division, just, I think two days before he transferred
out of the Division. Good guy, good guy, good boss.
But a lot of people were sort of not quite sure how to
proceed.
We were reverting back to these are the tags,
tear off the tags, didn't really seem to matter at the
time. That's what was going on. I don't know how to
describe it. When you didn't know what to do, I guess
you revert back to what you sort of understand.
That's what we were seeing. Well meaning EMTs, but messing up the triage. Tearing off the wrong
side of the tag. We found a lady who was relatively
badly injured. We scooped her, put her on the side,
put her on oxygen. There was a fire Chief, I don't
know where he came from, he had a fracture, I believe
in one of his arms. Took a nice knock in the head. He
was very concerned about where we were. He kept
looking from where we were to the skylight and he kept
saying we need not to be there.
Steve was (inaudible) Chief Villani, Captain
Rivera, Chief Pascale, I understand, was in the area at
that point. I guess she went in to find a ladies room
and a place to wash up. All this happened within a few
minutes. All this really happened within maybe 10, 15,
20 minutes.
Steve was concerned about what this fire
Chief had said, Steve is a very nervous type.
Q. Steve who?
A. Steve (inaudible) . Sorry. (inaudible) .
From the time we got out of the car, huge cloud
(inaudible). He came up to me and he said you need to
hear what this Chief has to say. He went and found
this fire Chief and he said we shouldn't be here. This
area is not secure. He kept pointing up through the skylight. Sure enough, he was absolutely right.
Not too long after that I went outside to
give an assist to -- the tracks on the MERV. They were
trying to set the tracks up on the back of the MERV so
that they could roll stuff. They couldn't get it
straight. I walked past and was giving them a hand.
All of a sudden somebody gave an alarm. I don't know
who it was, that it was time to evacuate this area now
as quickly as possible. Ambulances peeling out. MERV
peeled out. People left their ambulances taking off on
foot. People were confused. They didn't know, some of
the folks who were assigned over there, knew where to
report, but didn't know anything else about Manhattan,
so they didn't know where they should go first, or
where to report to at this point.
That's when the second collapse started to
come down. All kinds of noise. Boom, boom, boom,
boom, boom, very loud. Nobody knew what it was.
Everybody stopped when we heard it. Everybody took it
very seriously when the firefighters started running.
When they start running, it's like maybe time to catch
up, before you even ask a question and we didn't know
if that was
We started hearing the first building had come down completely. Initially we heard there were
like 5 or 6 stories that were still standing. Then we
heard that it was gas mains or cars going off. That's
what we thought the thumping was initially. But I
think it turned out to be the second building coming
down, because right after that there was this
monumental cloud. It was worse than the first one.
Looked for my guys, my medics were gone.
They took off. One, I understand, headed into an
ambulance. Neil tried to help somebody and he got
behind the building. Didn't know where my Chief went.
Lost Chief Villani completely.
Found Arnedegnato. I was banging on the
ambulance telling people just take off, head down as
far as you can go until you hear the word stop, because
nobody knew where to tell everyone to evacuate to. All
everybody knew the second building was coming down and
we were -- I think we finally decided I think the
building we were in was probably 3 World Trade Center.
I think that's where we decided we eventually ended up.
Q. Did you ever enter any of the buildings?
A. Yes, the interior triage building, whichever
building it was. It's still standing I understand. It
had a nice terrarium lobby. That was the first triage area. As far as entering actually one of the World
Trade Center buildings?
Q. Yes.
A. There was enough to do outside. It sounds
stupid. Eventually I had no doubt at all that we would
eventually just wander on over there, but at that point
nobody knew exactly how many Lieutenants were around.
How many units were around. We were still trying to do
the basic stuff.
How many people are here. Where are we going
to send them. I had no radio. I actually -- no, I'm
wrong. I did sign out a radio over there, but at that
point it was lost. I was waylaid by an ATF guy, who
was in such a -- in his exuberance to leave where he
was, he took off like a linebacker, knocked me clean
off my feet and I wasn't the only one.
He hit my watch. He knocked my watch off,
knocked my watch off. Somebody found it in the
rubble. Turned it in to Metrotech. Actually that's
like
Q. That's nice.
A. Absolutely, absolutely. So I found that
little EMT who was hysterical, people were taking off,
including the crew that was supposed to be taking care of her. They took off. So I stopped her for two
seconds, because I knew she was with somebody. She
couldn't tell me who her partner was. She wasn't able
to tell me where her partner was and she (inaudible),
it's hard to describe. She pulled away from me and ran
into the dust where some of the ambulances were
parked.
I turned around and I started heading off
after her. People running this way and I'm running
that way after this EMT. Ambulances going this way,
ESU trucks flying down the street, cutting through the
dust, people ducking out of his way. Absolute panic,
absolute panic.
Then I saw Arnedegnato. She was heading this
way. I was going to tell her to stop and wait because
I was concerned where everyone was. Sounds stupid. I
was worried about where my little group of people
were.
She was following two police officers and
some ATF guys and some non-uniformed personnel, but I
wasn't sure who they were. Who -- there was a -- I
believe it was a construction trailer. They looked
like construction trailers. Could have been a police
trailer, that was half a block further up the street.
Basically what we were trying to do at that
point was trying to get away from the dust. It's hard
to describe. It's like somebody puts a black cloth
over your face. You can't even breathe. They might
see but you can't (inaudible) -- like that. Then it
sits in your mouth. Like you couldn't even take a
breath, couldn't even take a breath. Like I said, it
was coming so fast. It was coming from this side, it
was coming from that side. As far as you looked, there
was more of it. It just like --
Q. (inaudible) ?
A. You couldn't outrun it. You absolutely
didn't have that. Everybody was heading in that
direction. The ambulances were taking off. One or two
stayed behind, stayed where they were. I headed
towards the trailer with the idea of at least getting
behind it, because I had took the attitude of somebody
else that they were around building one when it came
down. They started running. They got about a block
and then they realized that they couldn't outrun it,
and they should stay exactly where we were. Whatever
was gonna happen would happen.
I figured I'd get as far as the trailer. I'd
duck under it or beneath it, just follow the rest of the cops and firemen to see where they are headed. We
managed to get in it just around the time the cloud
hit. Everything got pitch black. There was no power.
Stuff rained off it, banged off it left and right. It
got pitch black, because when the cloud hit it was like
nighttime. It stayed that way for quite a while. It
stayed that way for quite a while.
I did a fast head count there. The only
person I could find was Arnedegnato. I didn't know
where the Chief was. I lost Villani, didn't know where
the medics were. There were no other units with me
besides she and I, who were in that trailer. There was
a couple of cops and some firemen, and whoever was the
occupants of the trailer.
Found some water in the trailer and do what
we can to irrigate some people in the dark who had some
real trouble with what was in their eyes. I went
outside while it was still kind of sort of coming
down. The blackness was gone. Everything was sort of
gray, looked like snow, with the intention of looking
for everybody. I sort of felt responsible to know
where they were. Nobody was around. It was dead
quiet. The ambulances looked like they were covered
with gray snow, the rubble on the ground, just looked like mounds of like gray -- just like clouds, because
you couldn't even see. The dust was so thick you
couldn't see a sharp edge from a smooth edge.
Eventually we left the trailer. I located
Captain Rivera. Arnedegnato stayed with me. We needed
to find as many EMS people as we could, because really
at that point there were no EMS people floating
around. A lot of firemen, a lot of cops, still some
civilians oddly enough who were staggering around, some
plainclothes people I didn't recognize.
Most of the ambulances had evacuated except
for the few who were sitting there and nobody was
moving in those. Some of them were running, some of
them weren't. Didn't think anyone was in them.
Couldn't see anybody. Asked her to hang out, stay here
and you and I will try to get some EMS people together
to find out where to stage. We will find out exactly
where we are supposed to be. I turned my back and she
was gone. No idea where she went. We didn't find her
till the end of the night. She turned up at one of the
hospitals, not hurt, but at a field hospital.
Located Captain Rivera. Asked him if he was
aware of any sort of command post, anything. He was
absolutely unaware. He had no idea of what was going on. Figured we would stay together and set something up.
Then I looked around some more, saw Chief
Pascale. I don't know where she ended up or where she
went. She asked me what I was doing there. At that
point I found a couple of firemen. I said well,
there's two firemen over here and they need attention.
See those ambulances? We need to find out who belongs
to those ambulances, if they are still running. She is
giving me orders. I said okay.
So I went looking, I found Neil, found
Steve. So then it was me, Neil, Steve and Captain
Rivera. Somebody, it was either an operations officer
or a Chief, who I didn't recognize wearing white, had a
white helmet, but it wasn't marked. Everybody was
covered in dust. Couldn't identify. I was looking to
him, we were looking to him to see where we should set
things up. Somebody had to have a radio at that
point. Most us didn't anymore.
We walked a block further up. We got some
bottled water. There was bottled water amongst the
rubble. Grabbed some bottled water, put it on the
stair chairs we had and we were dragging it up the
block. We figured Stuyvesant High School was where we were sending most of the ambulances to evacuate, go
over there. A couple of ambulances were there.
Nobody had any clear idea what was going on.
Nobody had any idea what was going on, I mean, at that
point. Where is the command post, where is staging, we
had no radio. We couldn't get in contact with anyone.
Went into Stuyvesant High School because it was open.
The Police Department was in there. They had set up
sort of a command post. They were starting to set up
the command post.
We walked back and forth. They had a
gymnasium. Looked practical. They had an auditorium,
looked practical, school guards, who were being very
helpful. They had bathrooms, they had water. I said
this is a good place to set up. It's not that far from
where we were. It's right by the water. So I got
ahold of J.R., Captain Rivera. I said this is where we
should be. This is where we should do it.
I mean we should be inside this high school
right now. He said, good, good. He's trying to get
people at home on his cellphone. Steve is trying to
get people at home on his cellphone. Cellphones really
weren't working. I told Neil and Steve, go ahead and
throw some water on your face because there was water in there. They were throwing -- they had glasses of
water set up, the school staff did.
No sooner did we get in there, Neil was
looking for a bathroom. He went into the bathroom.
Steve was directed by me -- go over by the water. I
was heading towards the auditorium because I talked to
the school security guard and they said injured people
had walked in already and they were kind of pointed in
that direction. So I was heading towards the
auditorium when a bunch of cops came running up the
street yelling there's a gas main leak.
So everybody as a unit just left. We took
off out of that place because they were evacuating, the
school people, the injured people had to be dragged
in. We just tore off the oxygen masks. They flew as
fast as they could go. We evacuated at the rear of the
building. At that point it was so completely
disoriented, because now we heard from a lot of people,
because you couldn't see in there. I don't know how to
describe it. You couldn't have seen even half a
block.
The dust stayed in the air. It was so
heavy. You looked where you thought the building
should be and if they were there, you couldn't see it, because the dust was so thick. Nobody knew what was
going on. I mean you really didn't. (inaudible)
second building came down. While you're trying to
absorb that and I'm sitting there. They are saying
there is a gas main leak inside this high school. We
have to evacuate this building.
Under those circumstances, there is very little -- because I mean I have been -- we have been in the city for 40 minutes and I was already -- I had already seen my third skyline in 40 minutes. Three different skylines in the same square footage. I said, well, this is certainly possible. Everybody took off.
On the other end we were taking off down by the water. Nobody had any idea where we were going. We were just getting away from the building. I found a few EMS people that were just wandering. Had nothing with them. They were not Bronx people. They weren't with their vehicles. They had no helmets. They had no equipment. They were just covered in dust.
I spoke to one of my medics, you know what we should probably do, because we were still swamped with civilians. Let's get the EMS people here and at least stay in one spot or move as a unit, because we already lost two guys, okay, and he shrugged. That didn't kind of work out. That didn't work out too well. I'm sure people have other priorities in life. They only half heard what you were saying. I ran into one of the paramedics over here who when I was a Lieutenant, was a new recruit, Darnowski, whose brother also works in the system, who, his wife worked in the building. He hadn't been able to contact her. He was virtually useless.
Actually what happened, a lot of people couldn't find their partners. There was a lot of disorientation going around. People were not in a position to follow orders. No matter how nicely you put it, you are not going to order them, you must do this or you must do that, but people were not in any kind of position where they were going to follow any direction other than what they thought was most important at the moment.
Darnowski was out of it. I put him with his -- put him with his partner and then sent them on their way. Said you need to do this, you need to do this. Other people not so much. So it was definitely like a breakdown in discipline sort of. I'm not saying that to be critical. It's just that at that particular moment, nobody was paying attention. I wouldn't even have thought it myself. I felt I was sort of responsible, because at that point, there were no officers. We lost J.R. outside.
This person, he was probably a Chief, he was nowhere to be found, so I didn't see anybody else who was around. We walked up about half a block and I ended up being I think they said it was North, West and North, I think was the cross streets.
Q. North End?
A. Manhattan College.
Q. Okay.
A. There were a few EMS people. There was a Red Cross truck there that had shown up already. There were a couple of confused and lost looking fire people, and confused and lost looking EMS people. So I said, this looks like a good place to gravitate to, because we are confused and lost too. We kind of sort of took over the intersection. Again, nobody had a radio, nobody --
Q. Do you know about what time this was. It's very hard to --
A. So sorry. I lost my watch when the ATF guy blocker tackled me. I did. About an hour maybe, possibly. Bumped into a Lieutenant, who I never met before. His name was Pinky. Don't know what his last name was. He was a little character. He was giving orders, yelling. He didn't need a radio because you could hear him two blocks away. I said what's your name. He was keeping his head. He was doing all right. He said his name is Pinky, he worked in Manhattan. I didn't see him again. I was with him for half an hour and he kind of wandered off. This is at the point where everything I think, literally before the smoke cleared, people were doing sort of, a lot of free-lancing going on. There was a lot of -- whatever looked interesting is where people were milling towards.
Whatever people didn't want to go anywhere near, they would go in the other direction. It was hard to get control of people. Really was hard to get control. There was a group of people there one minute and you say you know what guys, hang over there, we are going to get filters for you. The Red Cross is floating around.
We were trying to set up an infirmary in Manhattan College. We are trying to -- hang there, hang there. Jerry Santiago, Lt. Santiago was there. Me, Jerry and Pinky were the only Lieutenants in there at that point. And a few EMTs, and a lot of law enforcement. Jerry Doyle, a former Chief's aide from Manhattan came in his car. He showed up and he saw me, because he recognized me.
He came up, and we decided every Lieutenant there, since only one Lieutenant turned out to have a radio, was going to get one EMT and keep him as a partner. We were going to try to establish something at this point because we didn't even know, was there a command post. Somebody said they thought there was a command post set up at one of the piers. At least that was where some of the Chiefs said they were going.
The Academy bus showed up with a bunch of people who were students in refresher. We ran into a little problem with some of them. Some people ran into a little problem, because one or two of them got off and kind of assumed this was -- they were going to assume command. This is what they were waiting for and you can tell the people who weren't actually there, because they came out in clean shoes. Everyone else was the same color gray.
Pinky is sitting there spitting stuff out between his knees. One or two guys looking exhausted sitting on stretchers on North Street. Right after we evacuated for the third time. I'm sitting. I had an oxygen tank on. I lost my nitro. I was sitting with an oxygen tank. I'm waiting for the pain to go away. One or two EMTs were totally confused.
[Blacked out]had just shown up and he thought he lost his car. He couldn't reach his wife, who worked within a few blocks away. Nobody was in a state for this. And this mook, who has more bars than me, he said men, we are mobilizing a task force. I need a bunch of you. We're going to go back there and get in those vehicles, because there was a few vehicles. If he would have understood. Didn't get much from us at that moment.
I hate to say it, but most of us were just too tired and a number of them had been absolutely petrified. I mean they were still like this, totally out of it.
Q. Oh, yes oh, yes.
A. And one of the Lieutenants with me stood up and said clearly you have been nowhere near that spot, because if you were, the last thing you would be asking us to do right now is walk right back in there to get an ambulance. You're kidding me. He said somebody hurt in there? I said we are not going back in to get a vehicle. We just left it.
I mean all of us were covered. Forget about it. Stuff in our eyes, cuts, bruises, equipment lost. Half the people we came with were lost. There were still people saying I can't find my partner. This guy was going -- very strange, very strange stuff. He took off. The Chief grabbed him by the ear and said get in my car, we are gonna take a look at something.
Where this guy ended up, but we never saw him again. He is the first Chief we saw at that point. Kind of talked to him. He said why don't you guys stay right here and I'll go a little further ahead, we'll find out what's going on and we will decide what's up with this. There were a few people showing up at that point that had radios and could talk to somebody and find out what was going on. Half the people without their vehicles didn't even have portables.
Sounds stupid, but you realize how important communication is at a time like that. In a situation like this, you are dealing with word of mouth. An ambulance, any ambulance, a voluntary ambulance rolled by, and you stopped them and said where are you coming from. We are coming from -- who did you speak to down there, EMS people, what did they say, where are they sending you. That's how we were running things. Okay, there are people down there, they are sending one block up this way, so they must be setting something up over there.
That's where we found out where the initial command post was, because a bunch of ambulances came out of nowhere, in a motorcade, and the city bus came with people from Brooklyn. We just jumped on the city bus and came down. They saw me standing there. At that point I was the only white helmet standing there. So they stopped in front of me and said where do you want us? I said well, I have 30 ambulances from Jamaica Hospital, some voluntaries on this corner. I got about 10, 15 EMS ambulances on that corner. This is the infirmary.
I got one Lieutenant who showed up off duty. He didn't have a radio. There was another Lieutenant who I walked over there and met. I don't know where he was from. He showed up with a radio. He was probably actually assigned, who was taking care of that end over there and the transport on that side that nobody knew was there. We transported about 30 people in our vehicles and nobody had seen anybody over there. Very disorganized.
They reported to me and said well, where did they tell you to go. They said, well they told us to go about a block that way. We saw you guys here. That's when we found out there was something going on a block down. I took Neil since there were two Lieutenants there now. I took him and I walked up a block. I had a fireman who had come over on the ferry. He gave me a business card with a radio frequency. He said, that ferry captain was over there. We were a block away from the ferry. All we had to do is go through a gate to the ferry.
He said, that Captain over there says he is ready to go. He would take people over to Jersey, but nobody is calling him, nobody knows he's there. This is his radio frequency. This was a fireman that came from home. I said absolutely. So I did a head count. How many paramedics and EMTs I had. How many voluntary ambulances and how many municipal ambulances I had.
We had had a city bus show up with doctors and nurses, PAS. The cops had opened up Manhattan College and they did a great job setting up a hospital in there. Kind of a M.A.S.H. Somebody showed up with a tractor trailer from Duane Reade, and we had all the batteries, flashlights, and orange baskets we could handle, work gloves. They were handing them out to anybody.
There was some people in that building, a Fire Marshal retrieved, transported. A lot of it was done verbally. I had kept eye contact with Neil. In the basement over there, there is a Fire Marshal. I told Steve, go over there. There is a guy holding his neck. Everything was like aye, aye, and verbal. I had my frequency, two Lieutenants and 3 ambulances. I was in charge. No one kind of knew we were there.
I ran into Joe Cahill. I saw him. I think he was kind of wandering around. I don't know who he came there with, but I don't think he was actually assigned to anybody at that point, because I turned around and he was backing up a voluntary ambulance to Manhattan College. I walked over and asked what are you doing here? He said I just went inside and talked to those doctors and they said they had no transportation. So I figured I would get them an ambulance.
Everybody at that point was a little bit -- they weren't looking at the big picture, because at that point the DOT was coming up to haul all the cars off the street so we could keep that block open. All sorts of bizarre little things went on. I walked to up to what turned out to be a command post about a block away. Saw a Captain who I didn't know at the time. Now I know who he was. He was in this little saw horse area. There were a few Chiefs.
Q. Who was it?
A. Captain Musto. I had never met him. I went up to him and I gave him the frequency. And he's on the radio -- Lieutenant so and so, Lieutenant so and so. This is where we are. You cannot see us. But we are a block and a half over there. Where do you want us. Where do you want these people and by the way there is a ferry parked over there waiting. I'm waiting. I walked up to him, he says what's your name and shield number. He gets my name, Neil's, Steve's, because he was with me. He asks how many people did you bring from the Academy?
I'm not from the Academy. I'm from Division 6. We came with a small group of people, but now we have -- just then, one of the Chiefs walked up to him and stuck a finger in his chest and said "I told you, no one but Chiefs behind that line." He looked at me like this and the Chief turned to me and said sorry out. I'm sorry. So (inaudible). Took the ambulances, (inaudible) radio frequencies. I don't know what they did.
These guys were besides themselves. Everybody was. I don't fault them. If he was the it man, if he was the guy that everyone was going to see, I don't know if I'd be in a good mood. Eventually all those people got organized and they got filtered in wherever. We stayed with them for a little while. There became an overabundance of people reporting in that area.
We got a radio, I found a van with a medic from the Academy. He was designated our runner because the one radio we did have among us went dead. So he was doing the running. They established another command post at one of the piers. There was another one further up the block. We decided we were going to take some of our resources. Lieutenant Trainer, I think was his name, showed up from Brooklyn. From Brooklyn with a couple of people. I don't know how he got there, in a van or a regular bus, they were on foot with their gear.
We established communication and they were asking for people here and they were asking for people there. So things were getting a little bit more organized.
Q. Do you have any idea what time frame we are in now?
A. Had to be twoish I guess, somewhere in that ballpark. We were there for a couple of hours. We were there for a couple of hours. Maybe even longer. By the time I left there there had to be 30 or 40 doctors at Manhattan College. Food had been delivered and it was being dispatched. We transported 20, 30 patients. Tracking was being done. Whichever Lieutenant was standing there without the radio is the one (inaudible)
Couple of guys showed up and said they told us to report here and set up a temporary morgue. So somebody knew that we were there. So as things got a little more organized, people started dispersing a little bit. Two other Lieutenants remained there. I walked up with Neil to the command post, because that was at the point where we had firemen working in the rubble.
All of a sudden the patient count stopped. We didn't see anybody. Then more and more free lancers started showing up. People identifying themselves as EMS employees who used to be on the job but are no longer. They were showing the old HHC I.D. card. All kinds of bullshit is going on.
We went up and we reported over there. I reported to Captain Nahmod. He was setting up (inaudible), Captain Rivera, he had set up a MERV and some triage, very close to building 7. They were setting things up as close as they could, because there were still people working in the area. Nobody was sure exactly how many people, because at that point there was so many free lancers showing up.
Somebody said they found a female that was on maternity modified on the pile. They took her off. (inaudible) showed up. Nobody knew how many people was actually there. The Academy was telling everybody, they said come up to the school, which is right around where the command post was being set up at that point.
Building 7 came down.
Q. Building seven came down I believe around 4 : 25?
A. Makes sense. At that point I had -- not St. Barnabas New York, but some out of state St. Barnabas ALS units with a Chief show up. They were good enough, when we set up. They wanted me to set up five stations, ALS, BLS, et cetera, outside the MERV. The MERV is going to be separate. I was going to be here. Nahmod was my boss. These guys were ALS guys. They brought tons of equipment they set up. I had a couple of EMTs. They didn't have a home. We set up very nicely and we were waiting. The building came down, we were still waiting. And waiting. We didn't see anybody.
Occasionally an EMS person needed a little irrigation or like that. We stayed until Chief Pascale showed up and took us off the line.
Q. Okay. Do you have anything else you want to add to this in regard to the events that happened prior to like roughly noon?
A. Meaning what? I'm sorry.
Q. Anything that you feel that you forgot to mention as you were talking. Sometimes things pop into our head, oh, I should have mentioned this. If you don't, that's fine.
A. Under the circumstances, a lot of people, you know, performed very very well. In a case like Darnowski, who was very concerned about his wife, was still functioning, able to follow whatever direction I gave him. The direction was basically get away from here because he would have done what any one of us would have done, walk up to the rubble, which other people had done for the same reason. They had spouses or whatever inside of the building. People performed very very well. I saw people who for 14 years I thought that the sun rose and set on them collapse.
I saw other people that I hadn't thought very much of at all, walk right into the situation and take control. Do what I thought at the time was exactly what they should be doing at that particular moment or at least the best that anybody could possibly hope to do at that particular moment, because the first couple of hours we were there, I don't mean in terms of free-lancing. The first few hours that we were there there was not much -- people would congregate in one space and a building would fall down and we scattered. Then smaller groups would get together and nobody was really sure who was in charge and I saw very few people walking around looking like they were looking to duck something.
Most people were okay. Most people were doing exactly what they should be doing at that moment. Very impressive. I didn't see anybody shaking any fingers at any voluntaries. I didn't see anybody do anything like that. You see that constantly. I'm a patrol boss out here. Conditions 18. I used to work with Barnabas units all the time. That was not a problem down there that day. Truly was not.
Communications was bad. The rumors were out of control. People who were showing up from Brooklyn and Queens, from outlying areas, a couple of hours after, came. I heard Chief McCracken and Chief Gombo were (inaudible) all day. That didn't help. We heard after we had already set up like a little hospital at Manhattan College about the Pentagon. That was the first time we heard it. I mean, we would normally hear WINS or something like that. That didn't help matters any. There was nothing you could do about it.
A big part of people's issues were their own families. You'd be surprised how many people who live and work in Manhattan and that was their primary concern. And while some of them cut out, because they couldn't reach home, a lot of people stayed right there.
My son goes to school in midtown and my mom works a little further uptown and I couldn't -- my cellphone was useless. Steve's cellphone was useless. Finally got an EMT that was good enough to give me a cellphone and I got through to his school that M. CAHILL announced that they would not release him from school unless someone came to pick him up. I said well you just need to understand where I am right now. I can't do that. I'm doing the single parent thing and I can't leave right now. They said well, then he stays the night.
A lot of people stayed. Some people took off and some of us stayed right there. I mean it was a difficult choice for I'm sure a lot of people. Jerry (inaudible). Couldn't find his mother-in-law on the phone and when he did, he was told, I don't know, she was in the building, that's all. He stayed right where he was and did his job. Very impressive. I don't really have much else to add. Sorry.
Q. You gave us everything we wanted. Very helpful. Very very helpful.
A. (inaudible) .
MR. ECCLESTON: That's what we are looking for. I thank you very much for conducting this interview with me. This interview is being concluded at 1318 hours.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110143.PDF
BATTALION CHIEF KING: Today's date is December 20, 2001. The time is 1057 hours and this is Battalion Chief Steven King from Safety Battalion FDNY. I'm conducting an interview with Fire Marshal Michael Cain, who is assigned to the DFI SOC command, our technical services unit. This interview is regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
Q. Mike, you can start whenever you're ready.
A. I got to work about a little before 8:00 o'clock that morning. I was in my office checking out some of my cameras and straightening up my office when one of the other Fire Marshals, Jim Murphy, said there was a fire in the Trade Center and it was a fifth alarm already.
I went over to his office, which faces the World Trade Center and I had my digital camera with me and I looked out the window and I could see the fire. I took a few pictures of it and then my supervisors were saying where we were going to go over there. This was a fifth alarm already so I went back to my -- I thought a minute and I said, You know what? I better set up a video camera in the window here. So I went to my office. I got a 3 Cain video camera with a couple of tapes. I set it up on the tripod in the window facing the Trade Center enclosing the top of -- the top, more like where the cash area was and I started the tape and as I was getting my fire gear ready looking out the window again, when we saw the second plane crash into the second tower. I left the tape running and I knew it was not an accident, you know, that this happened. So I gave Jim Murphy a little instruction on how to change the tape and he left the tape running.
I went with Bobby Burns and Mike Starace, we got in the car and we went over the Brooklyn Bridge. We went down underneath the -- down to the West Side Highway, came up West Street. We parked on West Street and I guess about Albany, West Street and Albany, got out of the car and started going up West Street and there were body parts in the street. The plane wheel was in the street. You could see the plane in the building. We went to about West Street, in front of -- West and Liberty, just before the pedestrian bridge where Chief McCay wanted to gather us all together just before we went to the command post. Then the Chief said to get my camera. I went back to the car, I got the camera out of the 4 Cain car. Bobby Burns went back to the car with me and as I got back up towards Liberty and on West Street Bobby Burns yelled to me, "run." I looked up. I took a few pictures as I saw the building start to collapse, I started running back towards like Albany and Carlyle streets and stopped again and I looked, I took a few more pictures and I knew I wasn't going to outrun this thing so I just ran and hid behind -- a found an ambulance. I just waited and the smoke caught up with me and I could hear the beams and the rocks, you know, pieces of rock would hit me on the helmet and I just hid behind the ambulance. It seemed like forever.
You know, I was in the truck company for a long time and when you go in through a search you look for that peek on the floor, that 2 inches that you always have the clear air and, you know, you can see your victim. I get down on the floor and I'm looking for that clean air and there ain't nothing. You know, I just stuck my head in my coat. Lucky I had my fire coat and helmet on and I just waited until what seemed like forever for the smoke to clear.
When the smoke started to clear I ran back 5 Cain towards the collapse zone, because I knew the rest of the guys were over there and when I got there the rigs were on fire, the pumper was on fire, the Ladder company was on fire.
I met up with supervisor Dave Lynn. You couldn't get through because of the pedestrian bridge, it was filled with debris. There was nobody on our side of the bridge that was hurt, so what I did was I made my way around the bridge down Albany Street, I guess, and down past the esplanade and then I started my way up towards the Yacht -- the North Cove Yacht Harbor and by the time I made it up there I almost made it to West Street again and all the E.S.U. cops were running towards me and towards everybody yelling, "Run." And I heard that distinctive sound again. The sound of the building collapse. I could see it collapsing and I started to run back towards the sea wall and as I was passing the sea wall, the Jersey State Police had a launch in the Cove Harbor and he was trying to pull out, but the bow line was still attached to the tire. You know, where they tie the boat up.
And I passed it by and then I looked up and the building and I said, "Oh, I can make it back there." He cut the engine and I was able to make it back to whatever they call the metal thing they put the rope around and I was able to get it off. He had enough slack and I just through to the launch, the cop on the launch and I guess they made it out of the cove, because they had wounded people on the boat. And I ran back towards the sea wall and when I got there the smoke came again but it didn't stay as long. Because there was a big breeze that came off of the water there that pushed it back.
Then we just made our way to West Street, just looking for whatever -- anybody that was there. Then we grouped up and found people and regrouped back up at the marshal's with Chief McCay and everything. We went back. They had a temporary command post down by where the old Pier 1 was. We had Dr. Kelly back there and everybody else and then we all moved the command post up, just up to the college. I guess it was the college. We went back to the college. We did different things for the next 59, 59 hours.
Q. That concludes your interview?
A. Yes.
BATALLION CHIEF KING: The time is 1105 hours and the interview with Fire Marshal Michael Cain is concluded.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110373.PDF
CHIEF KENAHAN: The time is 11:17 a.m., and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan, Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with Fernando Camacho of Ladder 22, in the quarters of Ladder 22.
Q. Fernando, describe the events as you recall them on September 11th.
A. On the morning of September 11th I was on house watch, and it was about 8:00. A little bit after 8, because I was watching the news, I saw the first airplane or it would seem, an explosion on one of the towers; I believe it was the north tower. Chief Picciotto came down, called the dispatcher and went out on his way down.
Approximately 15 minutes later, both the engine and the truck, we got our tickets to go down to the World Trade Center. It took us about maybe 20 minutes to get there. We came out of our truck prepared to receive our orders, walked down to the command post which was across the street on the West Side Highway. It was across the street from the north tower. We waited there approximately about 15 minutes for our orders.
After we waited for a while, we were told to go into the lobby of the Vista Hotel. We proceeded along the right side of the highway, basically the same side of the command post, down to the south pedestrian bridge, under the pedestrian bridge, to avoid being hit by bodies and debris going down.
We came in through the corner of Liberty and the West Side Highway into the Vista Hotel. There was a setup, a small command post or small gathering of firefighters there with a couple of chiefs. I can't tell who they were. I don't remember that.
We were in there approximately another ten minutes. Lieutenant Riley came back from talking to the chief, and we were assigned to go to the 75th floor. We got our equipment together and started walking up. Ladder 25 had gone ahead of us about five minutes before we got assigned to go to the 75th floor.
As we came in through the revolving doors, the lights went out. A second or two later everything started to shake. You could hear explosions. We didn't know what it was. We thought it was just a small collapse.
As I looked straight ahead of me, I saw total darkness. Everything was coming our way like a wave. The firefighters that were ahead of us and the civilians that were ahead of us totally disappeared.
We turned around. We were all pretty much within ten feet of each other: lieutenant, chauffeur, roof, OV, can. As we turned around, I ran probably maybe ten feet and that's when the body of the building or body of the collapse hit, and we were flying through the air basically. I must have flown 30, 40 feet through the air.
Then total quiet. You couldn't breathe. You couldn't see anything. None of the equipment worked. My face piece was gone, flashlight, helmet. There were about maybe five or six civilians around us. We tried to get them out, as we tried to make our way out.
We did a perimeter search. Everything behind us was blocked and to our sides. We came back out basically through the same way we came into the building. We were facing the West Side Highway now, but there was a hole in the side of the building. So that's how we found our way out.
The only thing I know is that it was the roof, the OV and myself that got out. I had the can. Lieutenant Riley and the chauffeur we couldn't find. We didn't know if they were trapped or they made their way out in some other fashion. We found out later that they did make their way out, through another exit or behind us.
The West Side Highway was still pretty clear. There wasn't a lot of debris in front of us. We made our way north underneath the pedestrian bridge that's to the north. As we approached the rig again, I was being tended by EMS for head wounds. Five minutes after that the north tower started to lean.
Q. You saw it leaning?
A. Yeah. What happened was that as I was standing there and getting bandaged, somebody said the tower is leaning. So me and Gorman -- he had the irons. We turned around and looked, and we could see the tower leaning. As it started to lean, it just came straight down. Now we're running again.
Q. Which way was it leaning? Towards West Street?
A. The tower was leaning not towards -- it leaned somewhat northwest but not -- it came down pretty straight after it leaned. It didn't really continue to lean. It just leaned a little bit and then came straight down. Basically that's it. We ran and we went into the high school that's I believe somewhere --
Q. On Chambers.
A. Chambers, yeah. It might be Chambers, a little further up from Chambers Street. We came back out after the cloud passed us and started helping out people that couldn't breathe or were injured. That's basically the bulk of the information I can give.
Q. Fine. Let me get one thing straight. From the time you noticed the leaning to the time of it coming down, are we talking about seconds here?
A. No more than three, four seconds.
Q. All right. Thank you for all your help, Fernando.
A. No problem.
CHIEF KENAHAN: The time now is 11:27, and this concludes the interview.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110318.PDF
CHIEF MALKIN: Today is December 4th, 2001. The time is 1431 hours. This is Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety Battalion. I'm conducting an interview with Fireman Frank Campagna of Ladder 11, and we're in the quarters of 28 Engine at this time. This is the fireman's statement.
Q. Where did you respond from?
A. I responded from quarters, came up the FDR, showed up to the scene. The fire was blazing out. The first plane had hit. We pulled up in front, and we headed inside toward the lobby. On the way inside you saw the usual stuff like everyone else saw, things falling and stuff like that.
We got inside the lobby and we waited to hear from a chief or whoever what's going to go on, wait until we found out what's going on. What wound up happening is they teamed us up with 4 Engine, I believe it was. What it was is they combined us as one hose team pretty much. So they dropped half of their rollups and we kept half of ours, we kept one standpipe kit, and we headed up together.
We just kept walking up. As far as we knew, there were no planes or anything coming in. There wasn't even a plane that hit that building. We just knew there was a fire up there. Any other explosions that we felt from inside were maybe extra machinery or something like that. Those were the words that we were getting.
So we just kept going up the stairwell. We got up to about the 17th floor, and we felt another pretty big explosion. At this time about every two floors, every three floors you'd stop into an office, get some water, take a breather. Guys were pretty winded. They had equipment on and carrying everything.
We're taking a breather, and I believe that's when the other Trade Center went down and everybody felt it and they didn't know exactly what it was. Everyone headed towards the stairwell, thinking it was a safer place to be.
After that happened, the building was still standing, everybody kept going up. So we kept going up, still stopping about every two, three floors. People still coming down. We were just telling them to keep calm and walk on the way down.
We got up to about the 28th, 30th floor, and we were taking another break. There was an office or we had a whole floor full of people. A chief came down from a floor above with another company and said everybody evacuate, everybody out now. We had to switch staircases. I believe the staircase we were in, there was no way down it anymore on the lower level. There was word that it had been taken out; we don't know what from. [Now did you catch that? the stairwell they had taken up,somehow was no longer there!I bet at the 22-23 level in the area of the FBI offices where there have been reports of an explosion and fire.See the Collateral Damages papers DC]
So we switched to a different staircase. We headed down. We let the civilians go first. We showed them towards that staircase and started heading down, letting the civilians go first, and we walked our way down. We were up there with a couple of companies. I don't know the exact numbers. I know 4 Engine was with us. Everybody went down with us.
We got down to the lobby, and there's a lot of guys down there in the lobby itself along with 4 Engine. Everyone is standing there, waiting to hear what's going to happen next, what's going on. Guys were just saying it's time to go, this isn't safe to stay in here.
So I believe we headed out along the wall of the Trade, and I believe 18 followed us out. That was it. It came down on top of us. That's all I remember of who followed us out or I heard who followed us out. 4 Engine obviously didn't make it out. They were with us the whole time, so I'm assuming they were still in the lobby at that time. That's pretty much it from that point on.
Q. What did you see when you left tower one? Tower two had already collapsed.
A. I didn't see it. Tower two we didn't even know went down. I had no clue it went down. When we were up on the 30th floor, guys were banging out the windows, saying, "Holy shit, this looks like a war zone."
Guys were saying stay away from the windows, something might come in, something might fall down and come in through the window. So I never got to see it. What they were talking about was the other Trade Center when it had gone down. The whole scene outside looked terrible.
On our way out when we left first World Trade, all we saw was -- it was like tunnel vision. All you saw was what was right in front of you. Things were still falling as we were heading out. The streets were all dusty. I was not really realizing that the other Trade Center had collapsed, because it was towards our left, I believe, which we were running towards the right. We were standing along the line, and it's just what's in front of me.
I wasn't really looking around to take a look. There's still stuff falling on top of us. So I still didn't know it went down. I actually didn't know until the other one fell down and I heard that the other one was gone while we were in there.
Q: When you exited the World Trade Center, the north tower, you were going where? North on West Street? Which way were you exiting the area? Running away from the buildings, which street were you on and which way were you going?
A. We were on West Side Highway and we were headed up towards
Q. North?
A. Yeah, north, toward Vesey. We were right there. Our rig was parked on Vesey, so we headed up that way. We were right under the walkway just about, and that's when it started coming, about there.
Q. Did you see the command post? Did you see Chief Ganci? Do you know Chief Ganci?
A. No.
Q. Did you see the command post with the command board?
A. I saw the command post. Actually I don't know -- I just remember seeing like there was a bunch of people over there past the walkway towards the water. There was just a crowd of people. I didn't know -- in that intersection there, that's all I was looking at was in that intersection there.
There was nobody in the intersection, nobody in the streets in general, everyone just saying come on, keeping coming, keep coming. That's when it went. I looked back. You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down. I turned my head and everybody was scattering. From there I don't know who was who. I don't even know where my guys went. None of us knew where each other were at at that point in time.
Q. So you just kept running as it was collapsing?
A. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Each and every person, pretty much.
Q. Then what happened? How did you regroup? Where did you go after that? Did you form up again or meet your guys again? What did you do after that?
A. After everything happened, we got engulfed by the whole cloud of smoke and everything, and guys were sharing masks inside that whole thing and trying to find our way out. We couldn't see anything inside there. I was right up on a cop van. My face was right against a headlight, and I could barely see that, because the lights were on on it.
Once we got out of there, I heard Mike Kehoe yelling, "28, 28." I found him, and from there we went looking around and we found Roy. He was up getting IV up somewhere. Then we finally found our lieutenant and Jimmy Ippolito who both of them I guess had ran towards the water towards where all the guys were at the command post area. I guess they ran towards that way. We ran down the West Side Highway.
The other guy we didn't really know where he was was our chauffeur. He was still out by the truck, I guess, when everything was going on. I guess when the second plane hit, from what I understand, he got blown back a couple feet and he got helped out and he got taken to a hospital. So he's all right. That was the only one at that point that we didn't know.
Then we finally all regrouped and whatnot and found each other. Around that time guys were coming in bus loads before we know it, coming in to help search.
Q. Where did you park your rig? Where was 28 parked?
A. He dropped us off right in front, right in front of the tower we went in, which is --
Q. The north tower?
A. The north tower, the second one that went down. He dropped us off right in front of there, and from what I understand he parked it right on Vesey Street. That's where we got off. It was right in front.
Q. What floor did you reach when you were climbing up? You said you were like on the 20th floor and then you decided to come down?
A. 28th or 30th floor, the 30th, around there, because we were going like every two floors. So it was around there. I remember seeing 28 on the wall, and then I think we went up again. I think it was around the 30th floor, we made it up there. From there that's when we went down.
Then a chief came down and pretty much said everybody evacuate, because nothing was coming over the radios, as far as everybody was still waiting. We were waiting with a bunch of guys at that point in time.
I saw one of the guys I knew from the academy. He was in 4 Engine. Another one I knew from academy, he was from 10-10. They were up there with us also. I don't know if you got details from someone else, but I'm pretty sure he was from there.
Q. What floor did you say you were on when you think the south tower fell down?
A. I would say about the 17th.
Q. You didn't have a radio that day. Did you have a handy talky?
A. Me? No.
Q. You were with the officer when you were climbing?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what was on the handy talky when the south tower fell down? Was there a lot of screaming? Do you remember radio messages or anything like that?
A. No, nothing like that.
Q. There were a lot of guys in the lobby, you said, when you came down to the lobby and hooked up. You don't remember anybody specific, companies or personal people, individual people?
A. No, like I said, it was real tunnel vision. I just wasn't being pretty much aware of anything around, who was around me and whatnot. Like I said, 4 and 18 are the only ones that stuck out in my head.
CHIEF MALKIN: Okay. I'm thanking the firefighter for the interview. The interview is concluded. It's now 1443 hours. This concludes the interview and also the chief's aide in the Safety Battalion, Michael Bosco, sat in on this interview.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110224.PDF
Under those circumstances, there is very little -- because I mean I have been -- we have been in the city for 40 minutes and I was already -- I had already seen my third skyline in 40 minutes. Three different skylines in the same square footage. I said, well, this is certainly possible. Everybody took off.
On the other end we were taking off down by the water. Nobody had any idea where we were going. We were just getting away from the building. I found a few EMS people that were just wandering. Had nothing with them. They were not Bronx people. They weren't with their vehicles. They had no helmets. They had no equipment. They were just covered in dust.
I spoke to one of my medics, you know what we should probably do, because we were still swamped with civilians. Let's get the EMS people here and at least stay in one spot or move as a unit, because we already lost two guys, okay, and he shrugged. That didn't kind of work out. That didn't work out too well. I'm sure people have other priorities in life. They only half heard what you were saying. I ran into one of the paramedics over here who when I was a Lieutenant, was a new recruit, Darnowski, whose brother also works in the system, who, his wife worked in the building. He hadn't been able to contact her. He was virtually useless.
Actually what happened, a lot of people couldn't find their partners. There was a lot of disorientation going around. People were not in a position to follow orders. No matter how nicely you put it, you are not going to order them, you must do this or you must do that, but people were not in any kind of position where they were going to follow any direction other than what they thought was most important at the moment.
Darnowski was out of it. I put him with his -- put him with his partner and then sent them on their way. Said you need to do this, you need to do this. Other people not so much. So it was definitely like a breakdown in discipline sort of. I'm not saying that to be critical. It's just that at that particular moment, nobody was paying attention. I wouldn't even have thought it myself. I felt I was sort of responsible, because at that point, there were no officers. We lost J.R. outside.
This person, he was probably a Chief, he was nowhere to be found, so I didn't see anybody else who was around. We walked up about half a block and I ended up being I think they said it was North, West and North, I think was the cross streets.
Q. North End?
A. Manhattan College.
Q. Okay.
A. There were a few EMS people. There was a Red Cross truck there that had shown up already. There were a couple of confused and lost looking fire people, and confused and lost looking EMS people. So I said, this looks like a good place to gravitate to, because we are confused and lost too. We kind of sort of took over the intersection. Again, nobody had a radio, nobody --
Q. Do you know about what time this was. It's very hard to --
A. So sorry. I lost my watch when the ATF guy blocker tackled me. I did. About an hour maybe, possibly. Bumped into a Lieutenant, who I never met before. His name was Pinky. Don't know what his last name was. He was a little character. He was giving orders, yelling. He didn't need a radio because you could hear him two blocks away. I said what's your name. He was keeping his head. He was doing all right. He said his name is Pinky, he worked in Manhattan. I didn't see him again. I was with him for half an hour and he kind of wandered off. This is at the point where everything I think, literally before the smoke cleared, people were doing sort of, a lot of free-lancing going on. There was a lot of -- whatever looked interesting is where people were milling towards.
Whatever people didn't want to go anywhere near, they would go in the other direction. It was hard to get control of people. Really was hard to get control. There was a group of people there one minute and you say you know what guys, hang over there, we are going to get filters for you. The Red Cross is floating around.
We were trying to set up an infirmary in Manhattan College. We are trying to -- hang there, hang there. Jerry Santiago, Lt. Santiago was there. Me, Jerry and Pinky were the only Lieutenants in there at that point. And a few EMTs, and a lot of law enforcement. Jerry Doyle, a former Chief's aide from Manhattan came in his car. He showed up and he saw me, because he recognized me.
He came up, and we decided every Lieutenant there, since only one Lieutenant turned out to have a radio, was going to get one EMT and keep him as a partner. We were going to try to establish something at this point because we didn't even know, was there a command post. Somebody said they thought there was a command post set up at one of the piers. At least that was where some of the Chiefs said they were going.
The Academy bus showed up with a bunch of people who were students in refresher. We ran into a little problem with some of them. Some people ran into a little problem, because one or two of them got off and kind of assumed this was -- they were going to assume command. This is what they were waiting for and you can tell the people who weren't actually there, because they came out in clean shoes. Everyone else was the same color gray.
Pinky is sitting there spitting stuff out between his knees. One or two guys looking exhausted sitting on stretchers on North Street. Right after we evacuated for the third time. I'm sitting. I had an oxygen tank on. I lost my nitro. I was sitting with an oxygen tank. I'm waiting for the pain to go away. One or two EMTs were totally confused.
[Blacked out]had just shown up and he thought he lost his car. He couldn't reach his wife, who worked within a few blocks away. Nobody was in a state for this. And this mook, who has more bars than me, he said men, we are mobilizing a task force. I need a bunch of you. We're going to go back there and get in those vehicles, because there was a few vehicles. If he would have understood. Didn't get much from us at that moment.
I hate to say it, but most of us were just too tired and a number of them had been absolutely petrified. I mean they were still like this, totally out of it.
Q. Oh, yes oh, yes.
A. And one of the Lieutenants with me stood up and said clearly you have been nowhere near that spot, because if you were, the last thing you would be asking us to do right now is walk right back in there to get an ambulance. You're kidding me. He said somebody hurt in there? I said we are not going back in to get a vehicle. We just left it.
I mean all of us were covered. Forget about it. Stuff in our eyes, cuts, bruises, equipment lost. Half the people we came with were lost. There were still people saying I can't find my partner. This guy was going -- very strange, very strange stuff. He took off. The Chief grabbed him by the ear and said get in my car, we are gonna take a look at something.
Where this guy ended up, but we never saw him again. He is the first Chief we saw at that point. Kind of talked to him. He said why don't you guys stay right here and I'll go a little further ahead, we'll find out what's going on and we will decide what's up with this. There were a few people showing up at that point that had radios and could talk to somebody and find out what was going on. Half the people without their vehicles didn't even have portables.
Sounds stupid, but you realize how important communication is at a time like that. In a situation like this, you are dealing with word of mouth. An ambulance, any ambulance, a voluntary ambulance rolled by, and you stopped them and said where are you coming from. We are coming from -- who did you speak to down there, EMS people, what did they say, where are they sending you. That's how we were running things. Okay, there are people down there, they are sending one block up this way, so they must be setting something up over there.
That's where we found out where the initial command post was, because a bunch of ambulances came out of nowhere, in a motorcade, and the city bus came with people from Brooklyn. We just jumped on the city bus and came down. They saw me standing there. At that point I was the only white helmet standing there. So they stopped in front of me and said where do you want us? I said well, I have 30 ambulances from Jamaica Hospital, some voluntaries on this corner. I got about 10, 15 EMS ambulances on that corner. This is the infirmary.
I got one Lieutenant who showed up off duty. He didn't have a radio. There was another Lieutenant who I walked over there and met. I don't know where he was from. He showed up with a radio. He was probably actually assigned, who was taking care of that end over there and the transport on that side that nobody knew was there. We transported about 30 people in our vehicles and nobody had seen anybody over there. Very disorganized.
They reported to me and said well, where did they tell you to go. They said, well they told us to go about a block that way. We saw you guys here. That's when we found out there was something going on a block down. I took Neil since there were two Lieutenants there now. I took him and I walked up a block. I had a fireman who had come over on the ferry. He gave me a business card with a radio frequency. He said, that ferry captain was over there. We were a block away from the ferry. All we had to do is go through a gate to the ferry.
He said, that Captain over there says he is ready to go. He would take people over to Jersey, but nobody is calling him, nobody knows he's there. This is his radio frequency. This was a fireman that came from home. I said absolutely. So I did a head count. How many paramedics and EMTs I had. How many voluntary ambulances and how many municipal ambulances I had.
We had had a city bus show up with doctors and nurses, PAS. The cops had opened up Manhattan College and they did a great job setting up a hospital in there. Kind of a M.A.S.H. Somebody showed up with a tractor trailer from Duane Reade, and we had all the batteries, flashlights, and orange baskets we could handle, work gloves. They were handing them out to anybody.
There was some people in that building, a Fire Marshal retrieved, transported. A lot of it was done verbally. I had kept eye contact with Neil. In the basement over there, there is a Fire Marshal. I told Steve, go over there. There is a guy holding his neck. Everything was like aye, aye, and verbal. I had my frequency, two Lieutenants and 3 ambulances. I was in charge. No one kind of knew we were there.
I ran into Joe Cahill. I saw him. I think he was kind of wandering around. I don't know who he came there with, but I don't think he was actually assigned to anybody at that point, because I turned around and he was backing up a voluntary ambulance to Manhattan College. I walked over and asked what are you doing here? He said I just went inside and talked to those doctors and they said they had no transportation. So I figured I would get them an ambulance.
Everybody at that point was a little bit -- they weren't looking at the big picture, because at that point the DOT was coming up to haul all the cars off the street so we could keep that block open. All sorts of bizarre little things went on. I walked to up to what turned out to be a command post about a block away. Saw a Captain who I didn't know at the time. Now I know who he was. He was in this little saw horse area. There were a few Chiefs.
Q. Who was it?
A. Captain Musto. I had never met him. I went up to him and I gave him the frequency. And he's on the radio -- Lieutenant so and so, Lieutenant so and so. This is where we are. You cannot see us. But we are a block and a half over there. Where do you want us. Where do you want these people and by the way there is a ferry parked over there waiting. I'm waiting. I walked up to him, he says what's your name and shield number. He gets my name, Neil's, Steve's, because he was with me. He asks how many people did you bring from the Academy?
I'm not from the Academy. I'm from Division 6. We came with a small group of people, but now we have -- just then, one of the Chiefs walked up to him and stuck a finger in his chest and said "I told you, no one but Chiefs behind that line." He looked at me like this and the Chief turned to me and said sorry out. I'm sorry. So (inaudible). Took the ambulances, (inaudible) radio frequencies. I don't know what they did.
These guys were besides themselves. Everybody was. I don't fault them. If he was the it man, if he was the guy that everyone was going to see, I don't know if I'd be in a good mood. Eventually all those people got organized and they got filtered in wherever. We stayed with them for a little while. There became an overabundance of people reporting in that area.
We got a radio, I found a van with a medic from the Academy. He was designated our runner because the one radio we did have among us went dead. So he was doing the running. They established another command post at one of the piers. There was another one further up the block. We decided we were going to take some of our resources. Lieutenant Trainer, I think was his name, showed up from Brooklyn. From Brooklyn with a couple of people. I don't know how he got there, in a van or a regular bus, they were on foot with their gear.
We established communication and they were asking for people here and they were asking for people there. So things were getting a little bit more organized.
Q. Do you have any idea what time frame we are in now?
A. Had to be twoish I guess, somewhere in that ballpark. We were there for a couple of hours. We were there for a couple of hours. Maybe even longer. By the time I left there there had to be 30 or 40 doctors at Manhattan College. Food had been delivered and it was being dispatched. We transported 20, 30 patients. Tracking was being done. Whichever Lieutenant was standing there without the radio is the one (inaudible)
Couple of guys showed up and said they told us to report here and set up a temporary morgue. So somebody knew that we were there. So as things got a little more organized, people started dispersing a little bit. Two other Lieutenants remained there. I walked up with Neil to the command post, because that was at the point where we had firemen working in the rubble.
All of a sudden the patient count stopped. We didn't see anybody. Then more and more free lancers started showing up. People identifying themselves as EMS employees who used to be on the job but are no longer. They were showing the old HHC I.D. card. All kinds of bullshit is going on.
We went up and we reported over there. I reported to Captain Nahmod. He was setting up (inaudible), Captain Rivera, he had set up a MERV and some triage, very close to building 7. They were setting things up as close as they could, because there were still people working in the area. Nobody was sure exactly how many people, because at that point there was so many free lancers showing up.
Somebody said they found a female that was on maternity modified on the pile. They took her off. (inaudible) showed up. Nobody knew how many people was actually there. The Academy was telling everybody, they said come up to the school, which is right around where the command post was being set up at that point.
Building 7 came down.
Q. Building seven came down I believe around 4 : 25?
A. Makes sense. At that point I had -- not St. Barnabas New York, but some out of state St. Barnabas ALS units with a Chief show up. They were good enough, when we set up. They wanted me to set up five stations, ALS, BLS, et cetera, outside the MERV. The MERV is going to be separate. I was going to be here. Nahmod was my boss. These guys were ALS guys. They brought tons of equipment they set up. I had a couple of EMTs. They didn't have a home. We set up very nicely and we were waiting. The building came down, we were still waiting. And waiting. We didn't see anybody.
Occasionally an EMS person needed a little irrigation or like that. We stayed until Chief Pascale showed up and took us off the line.
Q. Okay. Do you have anything else you want to add to this in regard to the events that happened prior to like roughly noon?
A. Meaning what? I'm sorry.
Q. Anything that you feel that you forgot to mention as you were talking. Sometimes things pop into our head, oh, I should have mentioned this. If you don't, that's fine.
A. Under the circumstances, a lot of people, you know, performed very very well. In a case like Darnowski, who was very concerned about his wife, was still functioning, able to follow whatever direction I gave him. The direction was basically get away from here because he would have done what any one of us would have done, walk up to the rubble, which other people had done for the same reason. They had spouses or whatever inside of the building. People performed very very well. I saw people who for 14 years I thought that the sun rose and set on them collapse.
I saw other people that I hadn't thought very much of at all, walk right into the situation and take control. Do what I thought at the time was exactly what they should be doing at that particular moment or at least the best that anybody could possibly hope to do at that particular moment, because the first couple of hours we were there, I don't mean in terms of free-lancing. The first few hours that we were there there was not much -- people would congregate in one space and a building would fall down and we scattered. Then smaller groups would get together and nobody was really sure who was in charge and I saw very few people walking around looking like they were looking to duck something.
Most people were okay. Most people were doing exactly what they should be doing at that moment. Very impressive. I didn't see anybody shaking any fingers at any voluntaries. I didn't see anybody do anything like that. You see that constantly. I'm a patrol boss out here. Conditions 18. I used to work with Barnabas units all the time. That was not a problem down there that day. Truly was not.
Communications was bad. The rumors were out of control. People who were showing up from Brooklyn and Queens, from outlying areas, a couple of hours after, came. I heard Chief McCracken and Chief Gombo were (inaudible) all day. That didn't help. We heard after we had already set up like a little hospital at Manhattan College about the Pentagon. That was the first time we heard it. I mean, we would normally hear WINS or something like that. That didn't help matters any. There was nothing you could do about it.
A big part of people's issues were their own families. You'd be surprised how many people who live and work in Manhattan and that was their primary concern. And while some of them cut out, because they couldn't reach home, a lot of people stayed right there.
My son goes to school in midtown and my mom works a little further uptown and I couldn't -- my cellphone was useless. Steve's cellphone was useless. Finally got an EMT that was good enough to give me a cellphone and I got through to his school that M. CAHILL announced that they would not release him from school unless someone came to pick him up. I said well you just need to understand where I am right now. I can't do that. I'm doing the single parent thing and I can't leave right now. They said well, then he stays the night.
A lot of people stayed. Some people took off and some of us stayed right there. I mean it was a difficult choice for I'm sure a lot of people. Jerry (inaudible). Couldn't find his mother-in-law on the phone and when he did, he was told, I don't know, she was in the building, that's all. He stayed right where he was and did his job. Very impressive. I don't really have much else to add. Sorry.
Q. You gave us everything we wanted. Very helpful. Very very helpful.
A. (inaudible) .
MR. ECCLESTON: That's what we are looking for. I thank you very much for conducting this interview with me. This interview is being concluded at 1318 hours.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110143.PDF
File No. 9110373
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIRE MARSHAL MICHAEL CAIN
Interview Date: December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
BATTALION CHIEF KING: Today's date is December 20, 2001. The time is 1057 hours and this is Battalion Chief Steven King from Safety Battalion FDNY. I'm conducting an interview with Fire Marshal Michael Cain, who is assigned to the DFI SOC command, our technical services unit. This interview is regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
Q. Mike, you can start whenever you're ready.
A. I got to work about a little before 8:00 o'clock that morning. I was in my office checking out some of my cameras and straightening up my office when one of the other Fire Marshals, Jim Murphy, said there was a fire in the Trade Center and it was a fifth alarm already.
I went over to his office, which faces the World Trade Center and I had my digital camera with me and I looked out the window and I could see the fire. I took a few pictures of it and then my supervisors were saying where we were going to go over there. This was a fifth alarm already so I went back to my -- I thought a minute and I said, You know what? I better set up a video camera in the window here. So I went to my office. I got a 3 Cain video camera with a couple of tapes. I set it up on the tripod in the window facing the Trade Center enclosing the top of -- the top, more like where the cash area was and I started the tape and as I was getting my fire gear ready looking out the window again, when we saw the second plane crash into the second tower. I left the tape running and I knew it was not an accident, you know, that this happened. So I gave Jim Murphy a little instruction on how to change the tape and he left the tape running.
I went with Bobby Burns and Mike Starace, we got in the car and we went over the Brooklyn Bridge. We went down underneath the -- down to the West Side Highway, came up West Street. We parked on West Street and I guess about Albany, West Street and Albany, got out of the car and started going up West Street and there were body parts in the street. The plane wheel was in the street. You could see the plane in the building. We went to about West Street, in front of -- West and Liberty, just before the pedestrian bridge where Chief McCay wanted to gather us all together just before we went to the command post. Then the Chief said to get my camera. I went back to the car, I got the camera out of the 4 Cain car. Bobby Burns went back to the car with me and as I got back up towards Liberty and on West Street Bobby Burns yelled to me, "run." I looked up. I took a few pictures as I saw the building start to collapse, I started running back towards like Albany and Carlyle streets and stopped again and I looked, I took a few more pictures and I knew I wasn't going to outrun this thing so I just ran and hid behind -- a found an ambulance. I just waited and the smoke caught up with me and I could hear the beams and the rocks, you know, pieces of rock would hit me on the helmet and I just hid behind the ambulance. It seemed like forever.
You know, I was in the truck company for a long time and when you go in through a search you look for that peek on the floor, that 2 inches that you always have the clear air and, you know, you can see your victim. I get down on the floor and I'm looking for that clean air and there ain't nothing. You know, I just stuck my head in my coat. Lucky I had my fire coat and helmet on and I just waited until what seemed like forever for the smoke to clear.
When the smoke started to clear I ran back 5 Cain towards the collapse zone, because I knew the rest of the guys were over there and when I got there the rigs were on fire, the pumper was on fire, the Ladder company was on fire.
I met up with supervisor Dave Lynn. You couldn't get through because of the pedestrian bridge, it was filled with debris. There was nobody on our side of the bridge that was hurt, so what I did was I made my way around the bridge down Albany Street, I guess, and down past the esplanade and then I started my way up towards the Yacht -- the North Cove Yacht Harbor and by the time I made it up there I almost made it to West Street again and all the E.S.U. cops were running towards me and towards everybody yelling, "Run." And I heard that distinctive sound again. The sound of the building collapse. I could see it collapsing and I started to run back towards the sea wall and as I was passing the sea wall, the Jersey State Police had a launch in the Cove Harbor and he was trying to pull out, but the bow line was still attached to the tire. You know, where they tie the boat up.
And I passed it by and then I looked up and the building and I said, "Oh, I can make it back there." He cut the engine and I was able to make it back to whatever they call the metal thing they put the rope around and I was able to get it off. He had enough slack and I just through to the launch, the cop on the launch and I guess they made it out of the cove, because they had wounded people on the boat. And I ran back towards the sea wall and when I got there the smoke came again but it didn't stay as long. Because there was a big breeze that came off of the water there that pushed it back.
Then we just made our way to West Street, just looking for whatever -- anybody that was there. Then we grouped up and found people and regrouped back up at the marshal's with Chief McCay and everything. We went back. They had a temporary command post down by where the old Pier 1 was. We had Dr. Kelly back there and everybody else and then we all moved the command post up, just up to the college. I guess it was the college. We went back to the college. We did different things for the next 59, 59 hours.
Q. That concludes your interview?
A. Yes.
BATALLION CHIEF KING: The time is 1105 hours and the interview with Fire Marshal Michael Cain is concluded.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110373.PDF
File No. 9110318
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER FERNANDO CAMACHO
Interview Date: December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
CHIEF KENAHAN: The time is 11:17 a.m., and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan, Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with Fernando Camacho of Ladder 22, in the quarters of Ladder 22.
Q. Fernando, describe the events as you recall them on September 11th.
A. On the morning of September 11th I was on house watch, and it was about 8:00. A little bit after 8, because I was watching the news, I saw the first airplane or it would seem, an explosion on one of the towers; I believe it was the north tower. Chief Picciotto came down, called the dispatcher and went out on his way down.
Approximately 15 minutes later, both the engine and the truck, we got our tickets to go down to the World Trade Center. It took us about maybe 20 minutes to get there. We came out of our truck prepared to receive our orders, walked down to the command post which was across the street on the West Side Highway. It was across the street from the north tower. We waited there approximately about 15 minutes for our orders.
After we waited for a while, we were told to go into the lobby of the Vista Hotel. We proceeded along the right side of the highway, basically the same side of the command post, down to the south pedestrian bridge, under the pedestrian bridge, to avoid being hit by bodies and debris going down.
We came in through the corner of Liberty and the West Side Highway into the Vista Hotel. There was a setup, a small command post or small gathering of firefighters there with a couple of chiefs. I can't tell who they were. I don't remember that.
We were in there approximately another ten minutes. Lieutenant Riley came back from talking to the chief, and we were assigned to go to the 75th floor. We got our equipment together and started walking up. Ladder 25 had gone ahead of us about five minutes before we got assigned to go to the 75th floor.
- Lt. Glenn C. Perry, 41
- Matthew Barnes, 37
- John Michael Collins, 42
- Kenneth Kumpel, 42
- Robert Minara, 54
- Joseph Rivelli, 43
- Paul G. Ruback, 50
As we came in through the revolving doors, the lights went out. A second or two later everything started to shake. You could hear explosions. We didn't know what it was. We thought it was just a small collapse.
As I looked straight ahead of me, I saw total darkness. Everything was coming our way like a wave. The firefighters that were ahead of us and the civilians that were ahead of us totally disappeared.
We turned around. We were all pretty much within ten feet of each other: lieutenant, chauffeur, roof, OV, can. As we turned around, I ran probably maybe ten feet and that's when the body of the building or body of the collapse hit, and we were flying through the air basically. I must have flown 30, 40 feet through the air.
Then total quiet. You couldn't breathe. You couldn't see anything. None of the equipment worked. My face piece was gone, flashlight, helmet. There were about maybe five or six civilians around us. We tried to get them out, as we tried to make our way out.
We did a perimeter search. Everything behind us was blocked and to our sides. We came back out basically through the same way we came into the building. We were facing the West Side Highway now, but there was a hole in the side of the building. So that's how we found our way out.
The only thing I know is that it was the roof, the OV and myself that got out. I had the can. Lieutenant Riley and the chauffeur we couldn't find. We didn't know if they were trapped or they made their way out in some other fashion. We found out later that they did make their way out, through another exit or behind us.
The West Side Highway was still pretty clear. There wasn't a lot of debris in front of us. We made our way north underneath the pedestrian bridge that's to the north. As we approached the rig again, I was being tended by EMS for head wounds. Five minutes after that the north tower started to lean.
Q. You saw it leaning?
A. Yeah. What happened was that as I was standing there and getting bandaged, somebody said the tower is leaning. So me and Gorman -- he had the irons. We turned around and looked, and we could see the tower leaning. As it started to lean, it just came straight down. Now we're running again.
Q. Which way was it leaning? Towards West Street?
A. The tower was leaning not towards -- it leaned somewhat northwest but not -- it came down pretty straight after it leaned. It didn't really continue to lean. It just leaned a little bit and then came straight down. Basically that's it. We ran and we went into the high school that's I believe somewhere --
Q. On Chambers.
A. Chambers, yeah. It might be Chambers, a little further up from Chambers Street. We came back out after the cloud passed us and started helping out people that couldn't breathe or were injured. That's basically the bulk of the information I can give.
Q. Fine. Let me get one thing straight. From the time you noticed the leaning to the time of it coming down, are we talking about seconds here?
A. No more than three, four seconds.
Q. All right. Thank you for all your help, Fernando.
A. No problem.
CHIEF KENAHAN: The time now is 11:27, and this concludes the interview.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110318.PDF
File No. 9110224
WORLD TRADE CENTER
TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER FRANK CAMPAGNA
Interview Date: December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
CHIEF MALKIN: Today is December 4th, 2001. The time is 1431 hours. This is Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety Battalion. I'm conducting an interview with Fireman Frank Campagna of Ladder 11, and we're in the quarters of 28 Engine at this time. This is the fireman's statement.
- Lt. Michael Quilty, 42
- Michael F. Cammarata, 22
- Edward James Day, 45
- John F. Heffernan, 37
- Richard John Kelly, Jr, 50
- Robert King, Jr, 36
- Matthew Rogan, 37
Q. Where did you respond from?
A. I responded from quarters, came up the FDR, showed up to the scene. The fire was blazing out. The first plane had hit. We pulled up in front, and we headed inside toward the lobby. On the way inside you saw the usual stuff like everyone else saw, things falling and stuff like that.
We got inside the lobby and we waited to hear from a chief or whoever what's going to go on, wait until we found out what's going on. What wound up happening is they teamed us up with 4 Engine, I believe it was. What it was is they combined us as one hose team pretty much. So they dropped half of their rollups and we kept half of ours, we kept one standpipe kit, and we headed up together.
- Calixto Anaya, Jr, 35
- James C. Riches, 29
- Thomas G. Schoales, 27
- Paul A. Tegtmeier, 41
We just kept walking up. As far as we knew, there were no planes or anything coming in. There wasn't even a plane that hit that building. We just knew there was a fire up there. Any other explosions that we felt from inside were maybe extra machinery or something like that. Those were the words that we were getting.
So we just kept going up the stairwell. We got up to about the 17th floor, and we felt another pretty big explosion. At this time about every two floors, every three floors you'd stop into an office, get some water, take a breather. Guys were pretty winded. They had equipment on and carrying everything.
We're taking a breather, and I believe that's when the other Trade Center went down and everybody felt it and they didn't know exactly what it was. Everyone headed towards the stairwell, thinking it was a safer place to be.
After that happened, the building was still standing, everybody kept going up. So we kept going up, still stopping about every two, three floors. People still coming down. We were just telling them to keep calm and walk on the way down.
We got up to about the 28th, 30th floor, and we were taking another break. There was an office or we had a whole floor full of people. A chief came down from a floor above with another company and said everybody evacuate, everybody out now. We had to switch staircases. I believe the staircase we were in, there was no way down it anymore on the lower level. There was word that it had been taken out; we don't know what from. [Now did you catch that? the stairwell they had taken up,somehow was no longer there!I bet at the 22-23 level in the area of the FBI offices where there have been reports of an explosion and fire.See the Collateral Damages papers DC]
So we switched to a different staircase. We headed down. We let the civilians go first. We showed them towards that staircase and started heading down, letting the civilians go first, and we walked our way down. We were up there with a couple of companies. I don't know the exact numbers. I know 4 Engine was with us. Everybody went down with us.
We got down to the lobby, and there's a lot of guys down there in the lobby itself along with 4 Engine. Everyone is standing there, waiting to hear what's going to happen next, what's going on. Guys were just saying it's time to go, this isn't safe to stay in here.
So I believe we headed out along the wall of the Trade, and I believe 18 followed us out. That was it. It came down on top of us. That's all I remember of who followed us out or I heard who followed us out. 4 Engine obviously didn't make it out. They were with us the whole time, so I'm assuming they were still in the lobby at that time. That's pretty much it from that point on.
Q. What did you see when you left tower one? Tower two had already collapsed.
A. I didn't see it. Tower two we didn't even know went down. I had no clue it went down. When we were up on the 30th floor, guys were banging out the windows, saying, "Holy shit, this looks like a war zone."
Guys were saying stay away from the windows, something might come in, something might fall down and come in through the window. So I never got to see it. What they were talking about was the other Trade Center when it had gone down. The whole scene outside looked terrible.
On our way out when we left first World Trade, all we saw was -- it was like tunnel vision. All you saw was what was right in front of you. Things were still falling as we were heading out. The streets were all dusty. I was not really realizing that the other Trade Center had collapsed, because it was towards our left, I believe, which we were running towards the right. We were standing along the line, and it's just what's in front of me.
I wasn't really looking around to take a look. There's still stuff falling on top of us. So I still didn't know it went down. I actually didn't know until the other one fell down and I heard that the other one was gone while we were in there.
Q: When you exited the World Trade Center, the north tower, you were going where? North on West Street? Which way were you exiting the area? Running away from the buildings, which street were you on and which way were you going?
A. We were on West Side Highway and we were headed up towards
Q. North?
A. Yeah, north, toward Vesey. We were right there. Our rig was parked on Vesey, so we headed up that way. We were right under the walkway just about, and that's when it started coming, about there.
Q. Did you see the command post? Did you see Chief Ganci? Do you know Chief Ganci?
A. No.
Q. Did you see the command post with the command board?
A. I saw the command post. Actually I don't know -- I just remember seeing like there was a bunch of people over there past the walkway towards the water. There was just a crowd of people. I didn't know -- in that intersection there, that's all I was looking at was in that intersection there.
There was nobody in the intersection, nobody in the streets in general, everyone just saying come on, keeping coming, keep coming. That's when it went. I looked back. You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down. I turned my head and everybody was scattering. From there I don't know who was who. I don't even know where my guys went. None of us knew where each other were at at that point in time.
Q. So you just kept running as it was collapsing?
A. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Each and every person, pretty much.
Q. Then what happened? How did you regroup? Where did you go after that? Did you form up again or meet your guys again? What did you do after that?
A. After everything happened, we got engulfed by the whole cloud of smoke and everything, and guys were sharing masks inside that whole thing and trying to find our way out. We couldn't see anything inside there. I was right up on a cop van. My face was right against a headlight, and I could barely see that, because the lights were on on it.
Once we got out of there, I heard Mike Kehoe yelling, "28, 28." I found him, and from there we went looking around and we found Roy. He was up getting IV up somewhere. Then we finally found our lieutenant and Jimmy Ippolito who both of them I guess had ran towards the water towards where all the guys were at the command post area. I guess they ran towards that way. We ran down the West Side Highway.
The other guy we didn't really know where he was was our chauffeur. He was still out by the truck, I guess, when everything was going on. I guess when the second plane hit, from what I understand, he got blown back a couple feet and he got helped out and he got taken to a hospital. So he's all right. That was the only one at that point that we didn't know.
Then we finally all regrouped and whatnot and found each other. Around that time guys were coming in bus loads before we know it, coming in to help search.
Q. Where did you park your rig? Where was 28 parked?
A. He dropped us off right in front, right in front of the tower we went in, which is --
Q. The north tower?
A. The north tower, the second one that went down. He dropped us off right in front of there, and from what I understand he parked it right on Vesey Street. That's where we got off. It was right in front.
Q. What floor did you reach when you were climbing up? You said you were like on the 20th floor and then you decided to come down?
A. 28th or 30th floor, the 30th, around there, because we were going like every two floors. So it was around there. I remember seeing 28 on the wall, and then I think we went up again. I think it was around the 30th floor, we made it up there. From there that's when we went down.
Then a chief came down and pretty much said everybody evacuate, because nothing was coming over the radios, as far as everybody was still waiting. We were waiting with a bunch of guys at that point in time.
I saw one of the guys I knew from the academy. He was in 4 Engine. Another one I knew from academy, he was from 10-10. They were up there with us also. I don't know if you got details from someone else, but I'm pretty sure he was from there.
Q. What floor did you say you were on when you think the south tower fell down?
A. I would say about the 17th.
Q. You didn't have a radio that day. Did you have a handy talky?
A. Me? No.
Q. You were with the officer when you were climbing?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what was on the handy talky when the south tower fell down? Was there a lot of screaming? Do you remember radio messages or anything like that?
A. No, nothing like that.
Q. There were a lot of guys in the lobby, you said, when you came down to the lobby and hooked up. You don't remember anybody specific, companies or personal people, individual people?
A. No, like I said, it was real tunnel vision. I just wasn't being pretty much aware of anything around, who was around me and whatnot. Like I said, 4 and 18 are the only ones that stuck out in my head.
CHIEF MALKIN: Okay. I'm thanking the firefighter for the interview. The interview is concluded. It's now 1443 hours. This concludes the interview and also the chief's aide in the Safety Battalion, Michael Bosco, sat in on this interview.
https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110224.PDF
No comments:
Post a Comment